Indy Teardown Warning

novassdude · 08-15-2019, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

One of the things that was on the minds of a lot of the officials and a lot of the racers was consistent rule enforcement from division to division. What was good in D-1 might not be good in D-5. The rules have to be made so they are easily enforced. The days of someone running their finger in an intake port and feeling it won’t cut it now day. I’m not a real high tech guy and don’t know anything about digitizing heads, however on the older cars with cast iron heads the same casting number can vary greatly from one head to another. On the new cars with CNC ports I’m sure digitizing would be possible.

In my mind that is exactly what they are trying to do with using the scanner it will take all subjectivity away. The number of Tech people that can look at a 1962 head and say if it looked right or not are getting very hard to find. I am assuming that there will be a tolerance of some type built in for core shift and wear. In my mind it is better than the free for all that is happening today.

Mike Fuller · 08-15-2019, 06:27 PM

I find this thread very interesting because during my career as a machine shop supervisor for a fortune 500 company we had a CMM in the shop. It did not have a laser attachment but used a probe. I attend classes for the purpose of learning the software and hardware concerning this piece of equipment for two weeks. My best operator attended classes for about four weeks and was very good at using this for a number of purposes.

In 1991 when the company purchased this machine it cost $56,000.00.It was a Browne & Sharpe 7-10-7. Smaller ones were cheaper but still not significantly. I don't know what a CMM with a laser attachment that had the ability to perform a 3D scan on a cylinder head would cost today. I feel comfortable saying that if NHRA were to start doing this at national events it would be best to contract someone to do this because of the complexity of this procedure. Being able to compare the scanned data to the CAD file of a know stock head would take a talented and well trained professional.

I am not saying this can or cannot be done at Indy but, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen.

Greg Hill · 08-15-2019, 06:41 PM

This is chasing a problem that most racers are not concerned about. For the old cast iron heads it will be next to impossible to do. For the factory show down cars if one of the racers get a good port, the factory will just have someone make 25 sets with that port and introduce it as a replacement head. Stock eliminator is limited by the cam lift, the manifold, the compression ratio, and the weight of the reciprocating assembly, and most importantly the horsepower rating. As always the folks that work the hardest and spend the most money will run the fastest.

HR9121 · 08-15-2019, 07:23 PM

Maybe they thought this would be a good way to get rid of us without having to pay a bunch of lawyers fees!

Ralph A Powell · 08-15-2019, 08:05 PM

From I have been told NHRA has been using the tool to check Top Fuel and Funny Car parts that have been submitted to see that they match the parts on file at NHRA for some time. My info comes from a very reliable source.

Jack Matyas · 08-15-2019, 08:42 PM

OK - So it's a Thursday night and I'm bored - so I may as well jump in the water and see if I'm bitten by some computer 'sharks' . As Ken said earlier we really don't know what this digitizing will bring - sadness ? Expense ? Level the playing field ? fights with officials ? low car counts ? And God knows what else but no one has spoke about what good could come out of the so called 'New Sheriff' and associates that are coming to the big Indy teardown.Most of us have 'bitched and moaned' about the lack of policing and teardowns in recent years and now that 'they' are willing to do something about it many don't like it - can't have it both ways boys and girls .At least it's a start - give 'em a chance …….

SGE1340 · 08-15-2019, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

OK - So it's a Thursday night and I'm bored - so I may as well jump in the water and see if I'm bitten by some computer 'sharks' . As Ken said earlier we really don't know what this digitizing will bring - sadness ? Expense ? Level the playing field ? fights with officials ? low car counts ? And God knows what else but no one has spoke about what good could come out of the so called 'New Sheriff' and associates that are coming to the big Indy teardown.Most of us have 'bitched and moaned' about the lack of policing and teardowns in recent years and now that 'they' are willing to do something about it many don't like it - can't have it both ways boys and girls .At least it's a start - give 'em a chance …….

Well said Jack !

Terry Cain · 08-15-2019, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Fuller

I find this thread very interesting because during my career as a machine shop supervisor for a fortune 500 company we had a CMM in the shop. It did not have a laser attachment but used a probe. I attend classes for the purpose of learning the software and hardware concerning this piece of equipment for two weeks. My best operator attended classes for about four weeks and was very good at using this for a number of purposes.

In 1991 when the company purchased this machine it cost $56,000.00.It was a Browne & Sharpe 7-10-7. Smaller ones were cheaper but still not significantly. I don't know what a CMM with a laser attachment that had the ability to perform a 3D scan on a cylinder head would cost today. I feel comfortable saying that if NHRA were to start doing this at national events it would be best to contract someone to do this because of the complexity of this procedure. Being able to compare the scanned data to the CAD file of a know stock head would take a talented and well trained professional.

I am not saying this can or cannot be done at Indy but, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen.

We had one too.
Had to have it calibrated once a year and the factory tech guy was always concerned . about the floor being level because we had BIG presses close by that shook the floor all day long. If they try to do it in a trailer I'd be real concerned.

Jeff Johnson · 08-16-2019, 08:55 AM

Soon to be released by NHRA the following statement.....This "Technical Enhancement" will raise the price of a entry by...…..

X-TECH MAN · 08-16-2019, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson

Soon to be released by NHRA the following statement.....This "Technical Enhancement" will raise the price of a entry by...…..

LOL..........You nailed it !

08-15-2019, 06:27 PM	#2
Mike Fuller Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 953 Likes: 574 Liked 203 Times in 80 Posts	Re: Indy Teardown Warning I find this thread very interesting because during my career as a machine shop supervisor for a fortune 500 company we had a CMM in the shop. It did not have a laser attachment but used a probe. I attend classes for the purpose of learning the software and hardware concerning this piece of equipment for two weeks. My best operator attended classes for about four weeks and was very good at using this for a number of purposes. In 1991 when the company purchased this machine it cost $56,000.00.It was a Browne & Sharpe 7-10-7. Smaller ones were cheaper but still not significantly. I don't know what a CMM with a laser attachment that had the ability to perform a 3D scan on a cylinder head would cost today. I feel comfortable saying that if NHRA were to start doing this at national events it would be best to contract someone to do this because of the complexity of this procedure. Being able to compare the scanned data to the CAD file of a know stock head would take a talented and well trained professional. I am not saying this can or cannot be done at Indy but, it will be interesting to see what is going to happen. __________________ Mike Fuller 396 STK 3961 SS Last edited by Mike Fuller; 08-15-2019 at 06:32 PM.

08-15-2019, 06:41 PM	#3
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 69 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Indy Teardown Warning This is chasing a problem that most racers are not concerned about. For the old cast iron heads it will be next to impossible to do. For the factory show down cars if one of the racers get a good port, the factory will just have someone make 25 sets with that port and introduce it as a replacement head. Stock eliminator is limited by the cam lift, the manifold, the compression ratio, and the weight of the reciprocating assembly, and most importantly the horsepower rating. As always the folks that work the hardest and spend the most money will run the fastest. __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

08-15-2019, 07:23 PM	#4
HR9121 Live Reporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Bern, NC Posts: 3,467 Likes: 146 Liked 3,363 Times in 731 Posts	Re: Indy Teardown Warning Maybe they thought this would be a good way to get rid of us without having to pay a bunch of lawyers fees! __________________ James Williamson W200 J/SA. SS/JA

08-15-2019, 08:05 PM	#5
Ralph A Powell Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Bay City Texas Posts: 389 Likes: 2 Liked 225 Times in 136 Posts	Re: Indy Teardown Warning From I have been told NHRA has been using the tool to check Top Fuel and Funny Car parts that have been submitted to see that they match the parts on file at NHRA for some time. My info comes from a very reliable source.

08-15-2019, 08:42 PM	#6
Jack Matyas Live Reporter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bethlehem , PA -Christmas City , USA Posts: 4,932 Likes: 411 Liked 2,052 Times in 400 Posts	Re: Indy Teardown Warning OK - So it's a Thursday night and I'm bored - so I may as well jump in the water and see if I'm bitten by some computer 'sharks' . As Ken said earlier we really don't know what this digitizing will bring - sadness ? Expense ? Level the playing field ? fights with officials ? low car counts ? And God knows what else but no one has spoke about what good could come out of the so called 'New Sheriff' and associates that are coming to the big Indy teardown.Most of us have 'bitched and moaned' about the lack of policing and teardowns in recent years and now that 'they' are willing to do something about it many don't like it - can't have it both ways boys and girls .At least it's a start - give 'em a chance ……. __________________ Jack Matyas 1547 FS/C 2015 Camaro COPO # 62- 2012 Camaro Convertible COPO

08-16-2019, 08:55 AM	#9
Jeff Johnson Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 28 Likes: 2 Liked 34 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Indy Teardown Warning Soon to be released by NHRA the following statement.....This "Technical Enhancement" will raise the price of a entry by...…..