Torqueflite problem

pfordamx · 07-19-2016, 08:43 AM

has anyone had this happen? i'm guessing this is caused by the converter not being seated properly, any help or hints would be great the converter looks fine and this is a amc 727 torqueflite out of a 3200lb amx that had 3 low 11 second passes on it. trans seemed to work fine the converter is a 8 inch tci 5200 stall. the trans was recently rebuilt by a friend in Missouri but i think this is user error. the converter was really hard to remove. would you try to grind these back straight or replace the front pump? i know i'm rambling just trying to give all the info i can.

Jim Kaekel · 07-19-2016, 10:11 AM

Inspect the complete pump and at least replace the stator shaft.

pfordamx · 07-19-2016, 11:31 AM

Will do.

Lou Jeffery · 07-19-2016, 01:11 PM

Be sure to check the torque converter end play. The wear marks on the stator shaft splines look like you have a thrust bearing in the converter out of it's pocket and rubbing the stator shaft. When the endplay is correct the Torrington bearings are piloted and cannot contact the shaft.

Tom Goldman · 07-19-2016, 01:15 PM

Several things come to mind on an AMC application that could cause this .
but the first thing that comes to mind is ,do you have the block separator plate installed ?
that plus a thicker than stock flex plate can cause the converter to ride that far back on the stator tube splines .
You still may have had adequate converter to pump clearance but just barely.
I'd also check the converter pilot for wear ,and /or block dowel tube not entering far enough into the trans . Some of the AMC 727's have a deep enough champfer that the tube does not actually enter the bore .

pfordamx · 07-19-2016, 01:36 PM

we do have a thicker than stock mondello flexplate and we had the factory engine plate installed and about 1/4 inch spacer because when the extra thickness of the flex plate had the converter flat against the flexplate before the transmission was pulled up all the way.

ss3011 · 07-19-2016, 06:30 PM

You need about .090" pull up on the converter . This photo looks like the stator splines were bottomed in the splines .

pfordamx · 07-20-2016, 09:18 AM

We had always assumed the converter was to far out and caused this but it sounds like its more likely that it wasn't pulled out enough so once you have the converter seated and it in the car how much does it need to pull out i've heard you want about .125 thousandths play if i remember right?

ss3011 · 07-20-2016, 12:21 PM

If you have a decent converter with anti-ballooning plates then if you have about .090" pull up you are probably OK . Your converter that has been run with the Stator Inner Race bottomed out on the Stator Support splines has probably damaged the splines inside the converter . It may be very difficult to re-install it , even if you installed a new Stator Support . It is also possible that the bearings inside the converter have been overloaded, and finally the engine thrust bearing could be hurt by running without any clearance . It would be to your advantage to check those things before just running it again .

pfordamx · 07-20-2016, 12:44 PM

the engine going back in the car is brand new and fresh never been ran the transmission and converter was spec'd for it but we put it behind a milder engine to make a race and now that engine has been completely gone through as well. but what i'm hearing is the converter probably needs to go back to tci to be checked out.

07-19-2016, 08:43 AM	#1
pfordamx Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 214 Likes: 3 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Torqueflite problem has anyone had this happen? i'm guessing this is caused by the converter not being seated properly, any help or hints would be great the converter looks fine and this is a amc 727 torqueflite out of a 3200lb amx that had 3 low 11 second passes on it. trans seemed to work fine the converter is a 8 inch tci 5200 stall. the trans was recently rebuilt by a friend in Missouri but i think this is user error. the converter was really hard to remove. would you try to grind these back straight or replace the front pump? i know i'm rambling just trying to give all the info i can. Attached Thumbnails

07-19-2016, 10:11 AM	#2
Jim Kaekel VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,227 Likes: 133 Liked 531 Times in 108 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem Inspect the complete pump and at least replace the stator shaft. __________________ Jim Kaekel 3836 STK

07-19-2016, 11:31 AM	#3
pfordamx Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 214 Likes: 3 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem Will do.

07-19-2016, 01:11 PM	#4
Lou Jeffery Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 91 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem Be sure to check the torque converter end play. The wear marks on the stator shaft splines look like you have a thrust bearing in the converter out of it's pocket and rubbing the stator shaft. When the endplay is correct the Torrington bearings are piloted and cannot contact the shaft.

07-19-2016, 01:15 PM	#5
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,475 Likes: 887 Liked 866 Times in 235 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem Several things come to mind on an AMC application that could cause this . but the first thing that comes to mind is ,do you have the block separator plate installed ? that plus a thicker than stock flex plate can cause the converter to ride that far back on the stator tube splines . You still may have had adequate converter to pump clearance but just barely. I'd also check the converter pilot for wear ,and /or block dowel tube not entering far enough into the trans . Some of the AMC 727's have a deep enough champfer that the tube does not actually enter the bore . __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

07-19-2016, 01:36 PM	#6
pfordamx Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 214 Likes: 3 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem we do have a thicker than stock mondello flexplate and we had the factory engine plate installed and about 1/4 inch spacer because when the extra thickness of the flex plate had the converter flat against the flexplate before the transmission was pulled up all the way.

07-19-2016, 06:30 PM	#7
ss3011 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 909 Likes: 70 Liked 239 Times in 114 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem You need about .090" pull up on the converter . This photo looks like the stator splines were bottomed in the splines .

07-20-2016, 09:18 AM	#8
pfordamx Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 214 Likes: 3 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem We had always assumed the converter was to far out and caused this but it sounds like its more likely that it wasn't pulled out enough so once you have the converter seated and it in the car how much does it need to pull out i've heard you want about .125 thousandths play if i remember right?

07-20-2016, 12:21 PM	#9
ss3011 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 909 Likes: 70 Liked 239 Times in 114 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem If you have a decent converter with anti-ballooning plates then if you have about .090" pull up you are probably OK . Your converter that has been run with the Stator Inner Race bottomed out on the Stator Support splines has probably damaged the splines inside the converter . It may be very difficult to re-install it , even if you installed a new Stator Support . It is also possible that the bearings inside the converter have been overloaded, and finally the engine thrust bearing could be hurt by running without any clearance . It would be to your advantage to check those things before just running it again .

07-20-2016, 12:44 PM	#10
pfordamx Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 214 Likes: 3 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Torqueflite problem the engine going back in the car is brand new and fresh never been ran the transmission and converter was spec'd for it but we put it behind a milder engine to make a race and now that engine has been completely gone through as well. but what i'm hearing is the converter probably needs to go back to tci to be checked out.