Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA!

terry1 · 12-11-2007, 07:19 PM

It would appear that, if you have a lineloc wired to your shifter,you will have to have a switch wired in/on your clutch pedal to activate your launch rev-limiter(if you use one,and I do).
Do "they"not realize that if this is the case,every time you depress the clutch your rev-limit will be activated?
You could wire a self/locking relay to the launch rev-limit,but this would require another on/off switch to go with the other one's most people have.
I don't think that the" powers that be" would like a bunch of relays that they would have to check for possible illegal connections to delay functions,or other "things".
Anyone else out there disgusted by this new irritation,especially after spending countless hours to wire your three step set-up just right?

Jeff Lee · 12-11-2007, 08:15 PM

Have you contacted IHRA with your concerns? And I do agree with you. Also, if you go this route, I believe you may have to re-adust your micro switch every time you re-adjust your air-gap because it would take more or less travel of the clutch pedal to release the clutch. Agree?

terry1 · 12-12-2007, 09:56 AM

Your right Jeff.This would be just another,not necessary,pain in the ***,adjustment required on a very regular basis.Just like the muffler thing a few years ago,do "they"not realize the the waist of time it will take to redo,in my case,and I think I'm not alone,a excellent job done to my (wiring) in my car to get things just right with no intermittents.I suppose that a record function of a play/back tach,that has to be armed,also can not be a function of my/anyones stick switch.If "they" think we are such sneaky/cheating/.underhanded/(fill in any other adjectives) racers,lets go the IROC route,build us cars and away we go ,all on a even keel.

castle5 · 12-12-2007, 05:49 PM

most class racers are shifting clutchless. i use clutch on every gear change and ive got a clutch lever mounted switch and ive never had a problem with rev liniter coming on during shifts. i just tap the pedal anyhow. on gear changes...i guess it depends on your driving style...try it first

Rod Greene · 12-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Ok Castle so at the end of your run you just back off the throttle and pull off the track? I push the clutch in oops just went from 8000 rpm to 6500 (if I had a swich on the clutch) and coast off the track. Several stick racers talked to Bruce at the Vegas national race. We thought he understood the problem or lack of one as pertains to the line lock two step issue for stick cars obviously it didn't make it to the rules makers. We need racers involved in the rules process and not just the sludge-o-matic racers.

terry1 · 12-12-2007, 08:18 PM

Is it possible that if us stick guys(and gals) got together and individually sent our concerns to IHRA(don't get me started with nhra) they may actually listen?

race watcher · 12-12-2007, 10:46 PM

It is possible to mount a micro switch on either shifter or trans lever to only energize the two step in 1st gear.

Stick Racing · 12-13-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by race watcher

It is possible to mount a micro switch on either shifter or trans lever to only energize the two step in 1st gear.

(11/15/07) The two or three step must be mounted on the brake or clutch petal on all entries. The function may not be actived or deactived by any other switch on the car.

The way I read it, that's not legal.

Andy Stone B/S 1102

Jeff Lee · 12-13-2007, 12:36 AM

I think NHRA doesn't understand stick racers are not the problem (perceived or real) with the two step buttons. Long travel buttons have no place in a clutch environment as you wouldn't want a delay in releasing the two-step after engaging the clutch disk which typically have a .035" to .075" air-gap. A 3" travel two-step button obviously has no place here. The problem you would run into is a two-step activating early or late as a result of a improper micro-switch adjustment. To early and the RPM goes to the next stage of the two-step and you hit the clutch engagement to hard. To late and the clutch engagement occurs on the two-step and their is less power at the crankshaft possibly causing too much slippage.
Stick racers should have a choice between running two switches (one for linelock, one for two-step) or tie both together as traditionally done (usually with a single button on the shift handle) as long as all wires are visible and easily traceable. I think NHRA doesn't understand stick racers are not the problem (perceived or real) with the two step buttons. Long travel buttons have no place in a clutch environment as you wouldn't want a delay in releasing the two-step after engaging the clutch disk which typically have a .035" to .075" air-gap. A 3" travel two-step button obviously has no place here. The problem you would run into is a two-step activating early or late as a result of a improper micro-switch adjustment. To early and the RPM goes to the next stage of the two-step and you hit the clutch engagement to hard. To late and the clutch engagement occurs on the two-step and their is less power at the crankshaft possibly causing too much slippage.
Stick racers should have a choice between running two switches (one for linelock, one for two-step) or tie both together as traditionally done (usually with a single button on the shift handle) as long as all wires are visible and easily traceable.
I'm copying this to Len Imbrogno. (Limbrogno@nhra.com)

terry1 · 12-13-2007, 10:03 AM

Well said Jeff.Hope you will keep us up to date on any correspondence that even has the "look"that some one is listening.Imagine the concept that an organization like IHRA listening to what members have to say.If it happens that they do listen,nhra might learn a thing or two from IHRA,woundn't that be something.
I like your coment about wiring out in the open for all to see.I think IHRA officals would sure rather do that than try to trace endless contacts on multi contact relays.

12-11-2007, 07:19 PM	#1
terry1 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Moncton, N.B. Posts: 276 Likes: 24 Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts	Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! It would appear that, if you have a lineloc wired to your shifter,you will have to have a switch wired in/on your clutch pedal to activate your launch rev-limiter(if you use one,and I do). Do "they"not realize that if this is the case,every time you depress the clutch your rev-limit will be activated? You could wire a self/locking relay to the launch rev-limit,but this would require another on/off switch to go with the other one's most people have. I don't think that the" powers that be" would like a bunch of relays that they would have to check for possible illegal connections to delay functions,or other "things". Anyone else out there disgusted by this new irritation,especially after spending countless hours to wire your three step set-up just right?

12-11-2007, 08:15 PM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! Have you contacted IHRA with your concerns? And I do agree with you. Also, if you go this route, I believe you may have to re-adust your micro switch every time you re-adjust your air-gap because it would take more or less travel of the clutch pedal to release the clutch. Agree? __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

12-12-2007, 09:56 AM	#3
terry1 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Moncton, N.B. Posts: 276 Likes: 24 Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! Your right Jeff.This would be just another,not necessary,pain in the ***,adjustment required on a very regular basis.Just like the muffler thing a few years ago,do "they"not realize the the waist of time it will take to redo,in my case,and I think I'm not alone,a excellent job done to my (wiring) in my car to get things just right with no intermittents.I suppose that a record function of a play/back tach,that has to be armed,also can not be a function of my/anyones stick switch.If "they" think we are such sneaky/cheating/.underhanded/(fill in any other adjectives) racers,lets go the IROC route,build us cars and away we go ,all on a even keel.

12-12-2007, 05:49 PM	#4
castle5 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: indiana Posts: 39 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! most class racers are shifting clutchless. i use clutch on every gear change and ive got a clutch lever mounted switch and ive never had a problem with rev liniter coming on during shifts. i just tap the pedal anyhow. on gear changes...i guess it depends on your driving style...try it first

12-12-2007, 07:34 PM	#5
Rod Greene Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: TN Posts: 530 Likes: 417 Liked 242 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! Ok Castle so at the end of your run you just back off the throttle and pull off the track? I push the clutch in oops just went from 8000 rpm to 6500 (if I had a swich on the clutch) and coast off the track. Several stick racers talked to Bruce at the Vegas national race. We thought he understood the problem or lack of one as pertains to the line lock two step issue for stick cars obviously it didn't make it to the rules makers. We need racers involved in the rules process and not just the sludge-o-matic racers. __________________ Rod Greene Real men shift for them selves. Slowly working on TA Challenger for D,E/S and a 72 Challenger for SS/K, L as if I don't have enough other projects.

12-12-2007, 08:18 PM	#6
terry1 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Moncton, N.B. Posts: 276 Likes: 24 Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! Is it possible that if us stick guys(and gals) got together and individually sent our concerns to IHRA(don't get me started with nhra) they may actually listen? Last edited by terry1; 12-12-2007 at 08:21 PM.

12-12-2007, 10:46 PM	#7
race watcher Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 50 Likes: 5 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! It is possible to mount a micro switch on either shifter or trans lever to only energize the two step in 1st gear.

12-13-2007, 12:36 AM	#9
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! I think NHRA doesn't understand stick racers are not the problem (perceived or real) with the two step buttons. Long travel buttons have no place in a clutch environment as you wouldn't want a delay in releasing the two-step after engaging the clutch disk which typically have a .035" to .075" air-gap. A 3" travel two-step button obviously has no place here. The problem you would run into is a two-step activating early or late as a result of a improper micro-switch adjustment. To early and the RPM goes to the next stage of the two-step and you hit the clutch engagement to hard. To late and the clutch engagement occurs on the two-step and their is less power at the crankshaft possibly causing too much slippage. Stick racers should have a choice between running two switches (one for linelock, one for two-step) or tie both together as traditionally done (usually with a single button on the shift handle) as long as all wires are visible and easily traceable. I think NHRA doesn't understand stick racers are not the problem (perceived or real) with the two step buttons. Long travel buttons have no place in a clutch environment as you wouldn't want a delay in releasing the two-step after engaging the clutch disk which typically have a .035" to .075" air-gap. A 3" travel two-step button obviously has no place here. The problem you would run into is a two-step activating early or late as a result of a improper micro-switch adjustment. To early and the RPM goes to the next stage of the two-step and you hit the clutch engagement to hard. To late and the clutch engagement occurs on the two-step and their is less power at the crankshaft possibly causing too much slippage. Stick racers should have a choice between running two switches (one for linelock, one for two-step) or tie both together as traditionally done (usually with a single button on the shift handle) as long as all wires are visible and easily traceable. I'm copying this to Len Imbrogno. (Limbrogno@nhra.com) __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

12-13-2007, 10:03 AM	#10
terry1 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Moncton, N.B. Posts: 276 Likes: 24 Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Two/three step wiring/functions(stick cars)IHRA! Well said Jeff.Hope you will keep us up to date on any correspondence that even has the "look"that some one is listening.Imagine the concept that an organization like IHRA listening to what members have to say.If it happens that they do listen,nhra might learn a thing or two from IHRA,woundn't that be something. I like your coment about wiring out in the open for all to see.I think IHRA officals would sure rather do that than try to trace endless contacts on multi contact relays.