EMI / RFI and setting timing = problems

[joespanova]

Since I switched from an older MSD ignition ( analog 6AL and blaster coil ) from way back in the day to a newer Digital 6AL and E-core style 8252 coil I have EMI problems to the point I can't get a steady , make that even anywhere NEAR readable observation on the balancer. I'm getting plenty of interference. I've grounded everything , used "Spark guard" , moved the mag pick up trigger wires.
Anyone else able to share some things you've done to stop it?
Magnacor offers wires they say stops it..........dunno.

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm

read down to EMI suppression.....interesting.

[buzzinhalfdozen]

There are 2 things to consider here, first have you tried using a different timing lite, I've used some that just will not work on an MSD ignition system. Second Where do you believe your "noise" is coming from? Every wire that has electrical current running thru it CAN emit noise, the trick it seems is in minimizing it. Before you spend a bunch of time and possibly money, borrow another timing lite and see if you have the same issue, a lot of lites' pickups are extremely sensitive to EMI, most modern wire sets are fairly good at suppressing noise. P.S. most dial back lites seem to be problematic when used on MSD ignition systems especially the digital ones.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen

There are 2 things to consider here, first have you tried using a different timing lite, I've used some that just will not work on an MSD ignition system. Second Where do you believe your "noise" is coming from? Every wire that has electrical current running thru it CAN emit noise, the trick it seems is in minimizing it. Before you spend a bunch of time and possibly money, borrow another timing lite and see if you have the same issue, a lot of lites' pickups are extremely sensitive to EMI, most modern wire sets are fairly good at suppressing noise. P.S. most dial back lites seem to be problematic when used on MSD ignition systems especially the digital ones.

I have 4 lights......Craftsman , Flaming River style ( self powered ) and a couple Actron lights.......they HAVE worked , now I'm getting so much noise and have no clue as to why........
I'm going to swap a set of cheap suppression wires and see if there is a diff from the MSD wires.................maybe that'll make it worse?

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Where are you connecting the inductive clamp? Have you tried moving it near the plug end? Is the lite erratic or the timing erratic, or can't you tell? Does the engine run normally? I didn't see where you stated what wires you have or how old they are, older (with much use) sets can indeed start to leak. I've saw sets that when you turn the lites out in the shop and it's dark look like a fire works show. Also just a thought, make sure your power and ground wires to your lite as well as the pick up wire are not laying on or near any ignition wire. When wires start to leak a simple test with a spray bottle of water can locate the issue, with the engine running I'll lightly mist the wires with water and see if engine stumbles or I can hear arcing.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen

Where are you connecting the inductive clamp? Have you tried moving it near the plug end? Is the lite erratic or the timing erratic, or can't you tell? Does the engine run normally? I didn't see where you stated what wires you have or how old they are, older (with much use) sets can indeed start to leak. I've saw sets that when you turn the lites out in the shop and it's dark look like a fire works show. Also just a thought, make sure your power and ground wires to your lite as well as the pick up wire are not laying on or near any ignition wire. When wires start to leak a simple test with a spray bottle of water can locate the issue, with the engine running I'll lightly mist the wires with water and see if engine stumbles or I can hear arcing.

The engine is crank triggered...so its close..........just need to finalize the timing....it starts easily and sounds healthy. The wires are new MSD 8.5s.

[buzzinhalfdozen]

OK, well I've never used any MSD wire but let's assume they are NOT the cause of the interference. Do you have an alternator, electric fan, electric water pump, and are any of them on when you're trying to time the engine?Also does the timing lite have what looks like a flash every other revolution or is it pretty much on? Have you tried indexing the rotor, do you have a steady lite doing that? Maybe try merely trying to get a steady strobe by moving cables around and see if you can get that first. You say it's a crank trigger set up, are there any wires near your crank trigger wiring? Sorry for all the questions but it's harder to find the issue without actually seeing the set up first hand. One other thing you could try if you have one...put a spark checker on one of your plug wires and see if you're getting normal spark or extra spark events.

[Sean Marconette]

How old are the ignition wires? Dumb question, but wires played heck with my data acquisition system. New wires solved the problem. My old wires were only 2 years old. I also was told to install a RFI filter which is a gloried capacitor.
With what you have described, it sounds like a ground issue.
Is the engine grounded to the frame, and the battery grounded to the frame. Is the ground sufficient for the load? Is the polarity correct to the crank trigger for the MSD?

As Joe described, or I am reading into where he is headed. Disconnect everything that takes or makes power, start the car and check and see if the problem goes away. Then add One device at a time.

Sean

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen

OK, well I've never used any MSD wire but let's assume they are NOT the cause of the interference. Do you have an alternator, electric fan, electric water pump, and are any of them on when you're trying to time the engine?Also does the timing lite have what looks like a flash every other revolution or is it pretty much on? Have you tried indexing the rotor, do you have a steady lite doing that? Maybe try merely trying to get a steady strobe by moving cables around and see if you can get that first. You say it's a crank trigger set up, are there any wires near your crank trigger wiring? Sorry for all the questions but it's harder to find the issue without actually seeing the set up first hand. One other thing you could try if you have one...put a spark checker on one of your plug wires and see if you're getting normal spark or extra spark events.

What wire do you prefer?
The light stays on , you just cant make an sense of it. I usually have the water pump running.............electric.
BTW MSD tech....and I'm not impressed with them........suggest clamping at the cap , not plug.............and I dont think that worked .
I'm going to play around with this....... this afternoon

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Sean Marconette

How old are the ignition wires? Dumb question, but wires played heck with my data acquisition system. New wires solved the problem. My old wires were only 2 years old. I also was told to install a RFI filter which is a gloried capacitor.
With what you have described, it sounds like a ground issue.
Is the engine grounded to the frame, and the battery grounded to the frame. Is the ground sufficient for the load? Is the polarity correct to the crank trigger for the MSD?

As Joe described, or I am reading into where he is headed. Disconnect everything that takes or makes power, start the car and check and see if the problem goes away. Then add One device at a time.

Sean

The polarity is correct....even if it wasn't , from what I understand that would alter the timing but it would still show as "steady state".
Grounds , well everything is well grounded but I'll look at all this suggested stuff today.

[Sean Marconette]

Joe FWIW, the wires I had were Accel 8.8 and it was suggested to install MSD 8.5 wires and the filter have never had a noise issue again.

Does the light do the same thing if clamped to a different plug wire?
Is the power and ground for the MSD box going straight to the battery?

Sorry for all the questions it's the only way to rule out stuff.

Sean