Hemi Head Ruling

[jmantle]

Originally Posted by Frank Castros

The simple solution would have been to move forward, and state the rule will be enforced as originally written to benefit the class and no one competitor or engine builder.
The integrity of the Super Stock Class is being questioned by this decision.

I fully agree, couldn't have been simpler.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

[art leong]

I can give you all a hemi head story.
In 1980 Mother Mopar found 4 virgin steel hemi heads and sent them to Etown with Bob Glidden. I was told to go pick the two I wanted and tell a well know superstock racer to come get the other two. I studied them for an hour picked what I thought were the best two, loaded them in my red wagon, wheeled them to our trailer. And went and told the superstock racer to go get the other two.
This was when the Etown race was in late July.
Well come labor day weekend. We are in the tech in line at Indy and talk to the superstock racers Driver. He asks if we put the heads on the car yet, and told us they helped a bunch. But it took a long time getting the headers on. We hadn't done anything with that set of heads . But had a set with an Identical casting number on the car.
It did not come to mind that the superstock team had changed engines in half an hour when needed. Mere headers should not have phased them a bit.
Well that was back when all class winners went to the barn. The superstocker had their head off and on the bench, so we rushed to get ours up there. Nhra hated to do Hemi's because they had to fill the burrette up twice for the 168cc combustion chamber and the guy that was doing the heads at the time was a good guy. I took the head up and was looking at the head on the table it seemed to have "slightly" smaller intake ports than our head Then I wiped the sweat out of my eyes and saw I was looking at the exhausts.
Then the stock and superstock heads were the same except for valve springs and retainers. Those exhaust were almost as large as my intakes plus the bolt holes were moved. That was why the trouble with the headers.
When I saw this I knew I couldn't put our head down or they would have bounced the other head. So I told them I had to go ice our head down, and brought it up an hour later. Everyone passed and we all had a good race.
But then and there I knew it was over. We quit the following year.

[bad440]

Originally Posted by art leong

I can give you all a hemi head story.
In 1980 Mother Mopar found 4 virgin steel hemi heads and sent them to Etown with Bob Glidden. I was told to go pick the two I wanted and tell a well know superstock racer to come get the other two. I studied them for an hour picked what I thought were the best two, loaded them in my red wagon, wheeled them to our trailer. And went and told the superstock racer to go get the other two.
This was when the Etown race was in late July.
Well come labor day weekend. We are in the tech in line at Indy and talk to the superstock racers Driver. He asks if we put the heads on the car yet, and told us they helped a bunch. But it took a long time getting the headers on. We hadn't done anything with that set of heads . But had a set with an Identical casting number on the car.
It did not come to mind that the superstock team had changed engines in half an hour when needed. Mere headers should not have phased them a bit.
Well that was back when all class winners went to the barn. The superstocker had their head off and on the bench, so we rushed to get ours up there. Nhra hated to do Hemi's because they had to fill the burrette up twice for the 168cc combustion chamber and the guy that was doing the heads at the time was a good guy. I took the head up and was looking at the head on the table it seemed to have "slightly" smaller intake ports than our head Then I wiped the sweat out of my eyes and saw I was looking at the exhausts.
Then the stock and superstock heads were the same except for valve springs and retainers. Those exhaust were almost as large as my intakes plus the bolt holes were moved. That was why the trouble with the headers.
When I saw this I knew I couldn't put our head down or they would have bounced the other head. So I told them I had to go ice our head down, and brought it up an hour later. Everyone passed and we all had a good race.
But then and there I knew it was over. We quit the following year.

thats enlightening right there!

[SSDA Hemi]

Originally Posted by Frank Castros

The simple solution would have been to move forward, and state the rule will be enforced as originally written to benefit the class and no one competitor or engine builder.
The integrity of the Super Stock Class is being questioned by this decision.

Frank, The problem with doing this is that probably 80% or more of the Hemi heads in Super Stock would be illegal. They tried doing the AH racers a favor by legalizing what they are all running right now, but in the process passed this rule to all non-SS/AH Hemi Super Stock racers! So all the racers that have been running old SS/AH heads are now in need of new head castings! $$$

As was said in the previous thread, the Hemi head is unique as to the angle of the valve cover bolt to the face of the intake flange. Most heads have been milled through the bolt which was illegal the way the rule was written.

The simple solution would have been to legalize cutting back to/ into the valve cover bolt legalizing heavily modded SS heads out there. Making ALL SS hemi racers heads useable and allowing AH heads to filter down into the lower SS classes legally.

The Cuda and Darts came from the factory as pure Super Stock cars, no more, no less. They should have to follow the same rules as all super stock cars and not be given preferential treatment. Moving valve cover bolts to trim an inch off the intake flange is not in line with traditional Super Stock rules!

Comp eliminator already has "half a hemi". There is no room for "Half a Hemi head" in Super Stock!

The two major Hemi engine builders/ competitors both agreed they do not want this. This is a very expensive "trick of the week" for AH cars and in a class where money seems to be no object, the list of contestants is shrinking rapidly. Sad to see RMRE will no longer be in the SS Hemi wars, along with others. And back to the drawing board for Bucky.
Not good for the class. Let an AH car cross the seven second barrier with traditional rules not $$$...

[Spyphish]

[QUOTE=SSDA Hemi;370786]

And Stephen, if I was you, I think I would be the most pissed off of all. If they ever threw me out at Indy, I would not have the class and composure of Mike Cotten ! All hell would break loose and anyone with bolts out of their heads would have been going home with me at the very least !

NHRA said noting to me at the track. Photographed my R&M stuff with Ray Barton. standing right there. Got a call on the way home from CW asking why I was DQ? I was so POed the car has been in the top of the stacker until last week. About a month later I recieved a letter from NHRA saying to remove (2) 1/4 X 20 bolts that are visible on the head. We have 4?? on each head. Typo or can I leave 2?

Charlie won the race, got paid and has a steel arbor thru the head VISIBLE even with my poor one eye where my bolts are. (Our design is better). Just not faster and now we know why.

I am still waiting for takers on the KKFC challenge. Not a joke, I am serious. "Nip this K&%# in the bud" as we say in the South.

[SSDA Hemi]

Spyphish,I thought you had numerous pictures of the Barton and Warfish heads! where is your SPY ? LOL!

When all else fails, blame it on Frito!!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by David Barton

The following week we received a phone call from NHRA along with an e-mail confirming we had a personal invitation to relocate our lifter bores anywhere we want in both Stock and Super Stock. It was never published in the rule book, but I have a copy

David, I would LOVE a copy of that e-mail! That would explain a lot of things.

[wendell howes]

NHRA had a rule 3 weeks ago that made 80% of the heads legal.One engine builder (Barton) did not like the rule so NHRA changed it to what we have today.All heads now legal and junk. Oh well new heads and manifold only 30k and we will all be faster.Hoping we get a spoiler soon as the cars are becoming unsafe at these speeds.Lots of luck to all this season. Wendell

[Jeff Teuton]

This class was better when 9.00 was good and 8.99 was good for a starting line celebration. Now you got a pro stock car wrapped in a 68 Cuda or Dart body. It is so far out there, and the barn door has been open so long, the farm animals are now sleek low slung panthers. I wonder just how many could stand a Wesley inspection; motor, body, driveline, FRAME, and other stuff. I made templets for NHRA for the bodies that fit like a glove. Naturally NHRA refused to use them. I will offer them again. They were made off of old non-molested cars. SS/AH is still the most populated class in all of Super Stock and they do deserve special treatment, so write the rules on what is out there. It is impossilbe to regulate it at this point, leave the index @ 9.30 and give them modified rules. Nothing changes and they can then have 92 bolt holes machined off, still in SS. They don't stand up any move like the Hemis of old, don't really look like the old stuff, and if the cam's were any higher in the block, they would have a chandlier on them instead of lifters which those are bigger, moved, angled, sorta like this body I live in. Anybody really know where the steering really goes on a 68? Maybe I will make up a tech card just for the entertainment of those interested. And my Brother Joe and Nephew Lil Joe have 3 of those things, and over the years we have had many 68's. Pictures then and now will scare you. Hell, I believe I got .25 cents worth here.

[Charley Downing]

This thread is great, it's just Barton and crew crying about Charlie W constantly kick there ***** on and off the track. I do find it funny that David called CW a cheater, yet CW or CW customers have never been DQ (with a hemi) and yet Barton cars have been DQ after winning a hemi challenge race.