Mikronite

Myron Piatek · 03-21-2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelster

That's cryogenic. I can see how that would make a ring and pinion stronger, but does it make the car faster? Does cryogenically treated ring+pinion gears reduce friction?

Some of you guys are tight lipped in here, lol.

Have any of you experienced positive results from switching to a Mikronited ring and gear setup? How much did you pay? Where did you get the process done?

Jim's website shows that he can do cryo, the "Finished" surface treatment or both!

I've been getting gears done for a few years and they appear to be lasting longer. I was not in a position to do back-to-back tests with the "Finished" surface treatment, but others I know have had positive responses. It would stand to reason that a highly polished surface would at least have less resistance moving through oil over OEM machined and coated surfaces. A smoother surface would also tend to reduce friction. I wouldn't be wasting my time on it if I didn't think it was beneficial.

BlueOval Ralph · 03-21-2012, 12:14 PM

A smoother surface would also tend to reduce friction. This may not be 100% correct you may not want a super fine finish as it may not let your ring & pinion retain the lube the parts don't like to run dry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

Jim's website shows that he can do cryo, the "Finished" surface treatment or both!

I've been getting gears done for a few years and they appear to be lasting longer. I was not in a position to do back-to-back tests with the "Finished" surface treatment, but others I know have had positive responses. It would stand to reason that a highly polished surface would at least have less resistance moving through oil over OEM machined and coated surfaces. A smoother surface would also tend to reduce friction. I wouldn't be wasting my time on it if I didn't think it was beneficial.

Myron Piatek · 03-21-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueOval Ralph

A smoother surface would also tend to reduce friction. This may not be 100% correct you may not want a super fine finish as it may not let your ring & pinion retain the lube the parts don't like to run dry.

Point taken.

I guess it depends on the lube and other variables.
But bottom like, they appear to last longer for me..

BlueOval Ralph · 03-21-2012, 04:00 PM

It should help life but becarefull on the lube side you need the lube in the meshing of the gears and with alot of EP addiv. so gear mesh does not pust the lube out it needs to stay on the teeth.
JMPO

Marine One · 03-21-2012, 08:21 PM

The way I understand it is the more carbon you add, the stronger the steel. Low carbon steel gives us stamped steel fenders and panels. Medium carbon steel gives us blocks, cranks, rods and gears. High carbon steel gives us springs and fuel injection parts.

What cryo treating does for us is it transforms brittle austenite into a much tougher material called martensite. A downside to this is the fact that we could end up with what I guess I will call "unstructured martensite" for lack of a better term.

To help illustrate my point, an extreme example would be like pulling all the carbon out of a high carbon steel spring with five coils and putting it back in at the first, second and third bottom coils. By definition it is still a coil spring made with high carbon steel, but the way the carbon is structured makes the top portion of the spring vulnerable.

Jim Bailey · 03-21-2012, 10:07 PM

The beauty of REM ISF finish is that, unlike the very smooth surface left by Mikronite, Rem leaves the "valley" in the polishing, (much like a very fine cylinder hone). This valley is just enough to hold a film of lube on the part. There's a substantial reduction in friction. Combined with cryo (done properly), you get a great part.

Jim Wahl · 03-21-2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey

The beauty of REM ISF finish is that, unlike the very smooth surface left by Mikronite, Rem leaves the "valley" in the polishing, (much like a very fine cylinder hone). This valley is just enough to hold a film of lube on the part. There's a substantial reduction in friction. Combined with cryo (done properly), you get a great part.

Nicely explained Jim, thanks. Jim

.

cknight · 03-27-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey

The beauty of REM ISF finish is that, unlike the very smooth surface left by Mikronite, Rem leaves the "valley" in the polishing, (much like a very fine cylinder hone). This valley is just enough to hold a film of lube on the part. There's a substantial reduction in friction. Combined with cryo (done properly), you get a great part.

The Mikronite process does indeed leave an amorphous type surface finish of microscopic oil channels that are excellent at retaining lubrication. Unlike REM, there is virtually no material removal or change of dimension. Think of it as shot peening on a near microscopic scale, where the impacts of the media in the reverse centrifuge are hammering down the high spots. Surface and near-surface hardness also improves. It is also excellent for improving tool bits to extend their lifetime, resulting in less downtime in factories using drilling, milling, hobbing, etc. operations. It's also good as a DLC pre-process operation, and when combined with cryo procedures. Tom Lee has the machinery, and you can contact him on current pricing and delivery. Regards, Chase

1320racer · 03-22-2012, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

I've been getting gears done for a few years and they appear to be lasting longer. I was not in a position to do back-to-back tests with the "Finished" surface treatment, but others I know have had positive responses. It would stand to reason that a highly polished surface would at least have less resistance moving through oil over OEM machined and coated surfaces. A smoother surface would also tend to reduce friction. I wouldn't be wasting my time on it if I didn't think it was beneficial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueOval Ralph

It should help life but becarefull on the lube side you need the lube in the meshing of the gears and with alot of EP addiv. so gear mesh does not pust the lube out it needs to stay on the teeth.
JMPO

no Mikronite, no cryogenic, no EP additive...631 passes to date on my out of the box Richmond Pro gears, 60 footing low 20's to high teens with a best of 1.17 at 3144 lbs. with nothing more than 1 quart of Mobil 1 gear lube.

Just saying.

Jim Bailey · 03-22-2012, 07:05 AM

That's super .....Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Now, how about the guys that can't buy Pro Gears?, or better yet, what if we picked up "your" 60' to 1.15 and your 660 by .03, as has happened ....well.... lets just say a lot. We have chassis dyno tests on several different combos ...back to back to back to back....with 5hp to 11hp to the rear tires. It's not braggin' if you can back it up...(laughing). Also, tell "every" Fuel (nitro) Car that they can no longer run cryo'd (Byrant or Winfield) cranks,or "every" Pro Stock that Cryo'd and Rem finished gear sets are now illegal and see what their response is. One more thing, just for the fun of it, call Timken Bearing Co. and tell them their engineer's cyclic tests on Cryo'd and Rem'd bearings is bullsh!t. JB

03-21-2012, 04:00 PM	#4
BlueOval Ralph Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 852 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mikronite It should help life but becarefull on the lube side you need the lube in the meshing of the gears and with alot of EP addiv. so gear mesh does not pust the lube out it needs to stay on the teeth. JMPO

03-21-2012, 08:21 PM	#5
Marine One Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 69 Likes: 2 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mikronite The way I understand it is the more carbon you add, the stronger the steel. Low carbon steel gives us stamped steel fenders and panels. Medium carbon steel gives us blocks, cranks, rods and gears. High carbon steel gives us springs and fuel injection parts. What cryo treating does for us is it transforms brittle austenite into a much tougher material called martensite. A downside to this is the fact that we could end up with what I guess I will call "unstructured martensite" for lack of a better term. To help illustrate my point, an extreme example would be like pulling all the carbon out of a high carbon steel spring with five coils and putting it back in at the first, second and third bottom coils. By definition it is still a coil spring made with high carbon steel, but the way the carbon is structured makes the top portion of the spring vulnerable.

03-21-2012, 10:07 PM	#6
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Mikronite The beauty of REM ISF finish is that, unlike the very smooth surface left by Mikronite, Rem leaves the "valley" in the polishing, (much like a very fine cylinder hone). This valley is just enough to hold a film of lube on the part. There's a substantial reduction in friction. Combined with cryo (done properly), you get a great part.

03-22-2012, 07:05 AM	#10
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Mikronite That's super .....Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Now, how about the guys that can't buy Pro Gears?, or better yet, what if we picked up "your" 60' to 1.15 and your 660 by .03, as has happened ....well.... lets just say a lot. We have chassis dyno tests on several different combos ...back to back to back to back....with 5hp to 11hp to the rear tires. It's not braggin' if you can back it up...(laughing). Also, tell "every" Fuel (nitro) Car that they can no longer run cryo'd (Byrant or Winfield) cranks,or "every" Pro Stock that Cryo'd and Rem finished gear sets are now illegal and see what their response is. One more thing, just for the fun of it, call Timken Bearing Co. and tell them their engineer's cyclic tests on Cryo'd and Rem'd bearings is bullsh!t. JB