Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important?

Ed Wright · 08-14-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by race watcher

Upon disassembly have you inspected if rings or rails have rotated?

They always move anyway. I always say the best way to insure the top two end gaps don't line up is to install them that way. (lined up)
They never stay where you put them anyway.

Mike Taylor 3601 · 08-14-2011, 11:40 AM

I always like that oil use reasoning of ring gaps must be lined up,DUH big dummy compression,oil can't travel around to other side and go through that gap it can only go leak through lined up ring gaps.LOL
I usaully keep all gaps turned away from skirt sides and stagger from one side to other,IE top ring to front 2nd to rear 1st. oil rail front 2nd oil rail back,how long they stay that way don't know,do they rotate at same rates don't know that either.
Maybe I can hone cyls.alternating clockwise& counterclockwise according to firing order so that rotation of rings has one piston pushing and one pulling and create perpetual motion LOL crap I let the cat out of the bag before I patented it and had Pro Stockers paying thousands of dollars for my top secret cylinder honing.
Mike Taylor3601

CraigG · 08-15-2011, 04:51 PM

Hey Everybody,

I aligned all the rings according to the Sealed Power instruction sheet. When I installed all of the pistons - 2 or 3 of them ended up with the the oil ring assembly being rotated so that the expander end gaps were pointed toward the pin. The Oil Scraper ring ends are all spaced correctly.

Well, would you take it all apart to re-postion that oil ring assembly?

Thanks Again, Craig

Ed Wright · 08-15-2011, 07:36 PM

I wouldn't. They hardly ever (more like never) stay where you put them anyway.

Adger Smith · 08-15-2011, 11:06 PM

GM spent millions trying to figure that one out. Remember the problems with 307 and 396 oil useage? Ring placement and rotation speed during break in was part of the problem. Some engines rotate the rings at a real slow rate, others faster. The method of placement GM found is now put in every Mahle/CP/Clevite ring box on a little green piece of paper. I could get Real Technical, but for time sake... Just use their little paper. It works.

Tom keedle · 08-16-2011, 04:45 AM

just throwin' this out there, way back when i re-rung a 400 IT yamaha and it had pins in the ring lands to keep the rings where ya put 'em....

Ed Wright · 08-16-2011, 07:52 AM

Didn't want to snag a port in the cylinder wall with the end of a ring, right?

Ed Wright · 08-16-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

GM spent millions trying to figure that one out. Remember the problems with 307 and 396 oil useage? Ring placement and rotation speed during break in was part of the problem. Some engines rotate the rings at a real slow rate, others faster. The method of placement GM found is now put in every Mahle/CP/Clevite ring box on a little green piece of paper. I could get Real Technical, but for time sake... Just use their little paper. It works.

I've never bought a set of those rings. Total Seal doesn't send that paper. :-)
It tells you how to stop them from moving? I'd like to see that. Do you know if it can be found on line?

CraigG · 08-16-2011, 09:14 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your help!

It has been 10 years since I could save the money to build this motor.

Sorry - I have been working to use the best practice techniques I can and to check everything - but I have to be careful Not to get too ANAL or it will never get put together! LOL!

Thanks Again, Craig

08-14-2011, 11:40 AM	#2
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,374 Likes: 359 Liked 308 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? I always like that oil use reasoning of ring gaps must be lined up,DUH big dummy compression,oil can't travel around to other side and go through that gap it can only go leak through lined up ring gaps.LOL I usaully keep all gaps turned away from skirt sides and stagger from one side to other,IE top ring to front 2nd to rear 1st. oil rail front 2nd oil rail back,how long they stay that way don't know,do they rotate at same rates don't know that either. Maybe I can hone cyls.alternating clockwise& counterclockwise according to firing order so that rotation of rings has one piston pushing and one pulling and create perpetual motion LOL crap I let the cat out of the bag before I patented it and had Pro Stockers paying thousands of dollars for my top secret cylinder honing. Mike Taylor3601

08-15-2011, 04:51 PM	#3
CraigG Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 40 Likes: 0 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? Hey Everybody, I aligned all the rings according to the Sealed Power instruction sheet. When I installed all of the pistons - 2 or 3 of them ended up with the the oil ring assembly being rotated so that the expander end gaps were pointed toward the pin. The Oil Scraper ring ends are all spaced correctly. Well, would you take it all apart to re-postion that oil ring assembly? Thanks Again, Craig

08-15-2011, 07:36 PM	#4
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? I wouldn't. They hardly ever (more like never) stay where you put them anyway. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

08-15-2011, 11:06 PM	#5
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? GM spent millions trying to figure that one out. Remember the problems with 307 and 396 oil useage? Ring placement and rotation speed during break in was part of the problem. Some engines rotate the rings at a real slow rate, others faster. The method of placement GM found is now put in every Mahle/CP/Clevite ring box on a little green piece of paper. I could get Real Technical, but for time sake... Just use their little paper. It works. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

08-16-2011, 04:45 AM	#6
Tom keedle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Berthoud, Coloraduh Posts: 695 Likes: 13 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? just throwin' this out there, way back when i re-rung a 400 IT yamaha and it had pins in the ring lands to keep the rings where ya put 'em....

08-16-2011, 07:52 AM	#7
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? Didn't want to snag a port in the cylinder wall with the end of a ring, right? __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

08-16-2011, 09:14 PM	#9
CraigG Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 40 Likes: 0 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Oil Expander Ends - Positon/Phasing on Piston Important? Hey Guys, Thanks for all your help! It has been 10 years since I could save the money to build this motor. Sorry - I have been working to use the best practice techniques I can and to check everything - but I have to be careful Not to get too ANAL or it will never get put together! LOL! Thanks Again, Craig