Could Super Modified been different if?

Ed Wright · 12-30-2010, 11:55 AM

Some of the rules listed are wrong.
A, B & C were lbs/cubic inch.
Seems like a was 8.5 lbs, B was 9.5 lbs and C was 10.5 lbs.

A/SM did not have to be a big block. I took a shot at it with a 400" sbc.

B/SM did not have to be canted valve engines, still lbs/cubic inch. Lots of 331" sbc there.

C/SM was allowed canted valves one year. Fadley won C/SM at Indy that year but was bounced due to a displacement error. His crank was not what he ordered and he failed to measure it. Something like one cubic inch big at tear down. Voglen should have won. Fadley took him out early. I was dead late in the class semis, and an eleven second car ended up winner when Fadley was tossed. Rick Voglin was robbed. Next year C/SM was inline valves only. Seemed like C/SM had like 30 or so cars at Indy that year?

IHRA had Super Mod as a heads up eliminator at 10 lbs. Looser head rules, 11.5" tires and 850 carbs instead of NHRA's 750 cfm, 10.5" tire rules. Any GM head castings allowed. Rickey Smith pretty much ruled there.

NHRA allowed certain number 750 cfm carbs, pretty much same as SS rules there, but the choke butterfly & shaft could be removed.

Cylinder heads had to be assembly line available castings, no "Bowtie", "Turbo", etc. Porting allowed was chambers, and 1" below the bottom of the valve seats in the bowls, and 1/2" back from the intake flange for port matching. Any valve size.
There was a difference in heads. I had four sets from big name shops doing Modified heads. Won't name them all, but Lee Shepherd's were nearly a tenth quicker than anybody else's. They showed much better on my flow bench too. Shows how criticle the valve job & seat/bowl area is.

Btw, the Fadley & Mike Edwards car is one and the same.

randy wilson · 12-30-2010, 05:42 PM

Seems to me that it could be done today, with, say, the Brodix spec head, cars 75 and earlier, to give the old cars a showplace. Not much oversight, have a Brodix rep there to say yea, or nay. Check cubes, tire size, and fuel. Also, make the drivers have to clutch between gears, could be checked with rollbar mounted camera. I know Knoxville Ia. does it in 360 sprints, and is 20,000 cheaper, and a bigger turn out then 410. No one would have a head advantage. Is it possible? What you think Ed? At the divisional level.

FED 387 · 12-30-2010, 07:26 PM

Well I had it kinda right hell it was about 30-35 years ago-we pitted next to Vogelin at the Winters first big race for that car---it was basically a car straight from a used car lot with motor/trans/wheels added-only ran Ihra part of one season-we ran M/P anyway and tore down Fadely every chance we got ,more of a harassment kinda thing than actually looking for anything--hell we new he was legal just snooping--we made him take off door upholstery panels /pull a head on one side to check for porting and check the stroke on the other side---

blkjack · 01-01-2011, 12:19 PM

Maybe it was the demise of Modified Eliminator itself that made the "wheels come off" the class. Those who chose to run Comp needed upgrades ($$$) to keep up with others running Comp.
If you think the original concept of this class would work today you ARE dreaming.

FED 387 · 01-01-2011, 02:56 PM

The DEMISE of Modified was caused by NHRAs actions just like Pro Stock Truck---Modified always had great participation no matter where a race was !!!!! Comp at the time was somewhat similiar to what ya have now altereds/dragsters/funny cars etc... BUT without the full bodied vehicles---Super mod today would make it IF ya leave out the front wheel drive conversions to rear wheel drive configuration and maybe put a year age limit on those vehicles----also no sheet intake manifolds /restrict cylinder heads to only a few part numbers per OEM manufacturer/tire size restrictions and liteweight body parts like maybe a fiberglass hood only-- either a small or big block with a single un altered 4 bbl carb size determined by class on a cast alum intake manifold/ no fuel injection either OEM or aftermarket / with either an automatic or stick trans and slicks that have to fit in unaltered wheelwells-- might work ???

Ed Wright · 01-01-2011, 11:17 PM

The original rules we ran under after they restricted C/SM to inline valves and before they killed off Modified Eliminator were fine if they had just left them alone.

blkjack · 01-02-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

The original rules we ran under after they restricted C/SM to inline valves and before they killed off Modified Eliminator were fine if they had just left them alone.

You...are CORRECT....Sir!

blkjack · 01-15-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkjack

Maybe it was the demise of Modified Eliminator itself that made the "wheels come off" the class.

n my opinion, Super Mod died when NHRA killed Modified eliminator at the end of the 1981 season and the classes were split between Super Stock and Comp. When I look at what Super Mod has become, I just shake my head. While I am amazed at how fast the Super Mod cars run and I respect what the racers have accomplished, the current generation of cars is light years away from the original idea of affordable, heads-up racing.

Thanks for the memories,
Rick Voegelin

I guess we are in total agreement Rick. Today's SM cars are not much different than today's Altereds ( more or less a chassis car)

BlueOval Ralph · 01-03-2011, 11:24 AM

I was with Fadely at 99 % of those races, some peoples memory seem be off as they get older! The only place the door panel ever came off the car was at Edgewater WCS meet in June of 1977 and only ! (ONE) head was ever pulled at ony teardown period and that was at Dave Danish requist, he was filling in for Marty Barrett who was sick at that race. Marty was still Div III tech director. NO ONE EVER PUT UP $$$ FOR ANY TEAR DOWN ON THAT CAR FROM 1975 TO THE END OF 1978 WHEN EDWARDS BOUGHT THE CAR! If you have any questions you should contact Fadely @ affadely@mindspring.com or I can provide his phone #. THERE IS ALOT OF BULL $S on the information bellow!
Ralph
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387

Well I had it kinda right hell it was about 30-35 years ago-we pitted next to Vogelin at the Winters first big race for that car---it was basically a car straight from a used car lot with motor/trans/wheels added-only ran Ihra part of one season-we ran M/P anyway and tore down Fadely every chance we got ,more of a harassment kinda thing than actually looking for anything--hell we new he was legal just snooping--we made him take off door upholstery panels /pull a head on one side to check for porting and check the stroke on the other side---

FED 387 · 01-03-2011, 11:27 AM

I guess ya dont remember T christain ? I was at Edgewater and remember that teardown Pat Sullivan put up the $$$ and we all stood around laughing about it too!!!

12-30-2010, 11:55 AM	#1
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? Some of the rules listed are wrong. A, B & C were lbs/cubic inch. Seems like a was 8.5 lbs, B was 9.5 lbs and C was 10.5 lbs. A/SM did not have to be a big block. I took a shot at it with a 400" sbc. B/SM did not have to be canted valve engines, still lbs/cubic inch. Lots of 331" sbc there. C/SM was allowed canted valves one year. Fadley won C/SM at Indy that year but was bounced due to a displacement error. His crank was not what he ordered and he failed to measure it. Something like one cubic inch big at tear down. Voglen should have won. Fadley took him out early. I was dead late in the class semis, and an eleven second car ended up winner when Fadley was tossed. Rick Voglin was robbed. Next year C/SM was inline valves only. Seemed like C/SM had like 30 or so cars at Indy that year? IHRA had Super Mod as a heads up eliminator at 10 lbs. Looser head rules, 11.5" tires and 850 carbs instead of NHRA's 750 cfm, 10.5" tire rules. Any GM head castings allowed. Rickey Smith pretty much ruled there. NHRA allowed certain number 750 cfm carbs, pretty much same as SS rules there, but the choke butterfly & shaft could be removed. Cylinder heads had to be assembly line available castings, no "Bowtie", "Turbo", etc. Porting allowed was chambers, and 1" below the bottom of the valve seats in the bowls, and 1/2" back from the intake flange for port matching. Any valve size. There was a difference in heads. I had four sets from big name shops doing Modified heads. Won't name them all, but Lee Shepherd's were nearly a tenth quicker than anybody else's. They showed much better on my flow bench too. Shows how criticle the valve job & seat/bowl area is. Btw, the Fadley & Mike Edwards car is one and the same. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 12-30-2010 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Still can't spell...

12-30-2010, 05:42 PM	#2
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? Seems to me that it could be done today, with, say, the Brodix spec head, cars 75 and earlier, to give the old cars a showplace. Not much oversight, have a Brodix rep there to say yea, or nay. Check cubes, tire size, and fuel. Also, make the drivers have to clutch between gears, could be checked with rollbar mounted camera. I know Knoxville Ia. does it in 360 sprints, and is 20,000 cheaper, and a bigger turn out then 410. No one would have a head advantage. Is it possible? What you think Ed? At the divisional level. __________________ don,t have one

12-30-2010, 07:26 PM	#3
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 529 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? Well I had it kinda right hell it was about 30-35 years ago-we pitted next to Vogelin at the Winters first big race for that car---it was basically a car straight from a used car lot with motor/trans/wheels added-only ran Ihra part of one season-we ran M/P anyway and tore down Fadely every chance we got ,more of a harassment kinda thing than actually looking for anything--hell we new he was legal just snooping--we made him take off door upholstery panels /pull a head on one side to check for porting and check the stroke on the other side---

01-01-2011, 12:19 PM	#4
blkjack Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Belle Vernon, PA Posts: 288 Likes: 26 Liked 55 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? Maybe it was the demise of Modified Eliminator itself that made the "wheels come off" the class. Those who chose to run Comp needed upgrades ($$$) to keep up with others running Comp. If you think the original concept of this class would work today you ARE dreaming.

01-01-2011, 02:56 PM	#5
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 529 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? The DEMISE of Modified was caused by NHRAs actions just like Pro Stock Truck---Modified always had great participation no matter where a race was !!!!! Comp at the time was somewhat similiar to what ya have now altereds/dragsters/funny cars etc... BUT without the full bodied vehicles---Super mod today would make it IF ya leave out the front wheel drive conversions to rear wheel drive configuration and maybe put a year age limit on those vehicles----also no sheet intake manifolds /restrict cylinder heads to only a few part numbers per OEM manufacturer/tire size restrictions and liteweight body parts like maybe a fiberglass hood only-- either a small or big block with a single un altered 4 bbl carb size determined by class on a cast alum intake manifold/ no fuel injection either OEM or aftermarket / with either an automatic or stick trans and slicks that have to fit in unaltered wheelwells-- might work ???

01-01-2011, 11:17 PM	#6
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? The original rules we ran under after they restricted C/SM to inline valves and before they killed off Modified Eliminator were fine if they had just left them alone. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

01-03-2011, 11:27 AM	#10
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 529 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Could Super Modified been different if? I guess ya dont remember T christain ? I was at Edgewater and remember that teardown Pat Sullivan put up the $$$ and we all stood around laughing about it too!!!