2011 ahfs

Mike Carr · 11-19-2010, 12:22 PM

In regards to altitude tracks now being included, does the -1.200 under mean -1.200 under the sea level or factored Index?

My class, DF/S. 15.60 sea level Index. 15.99 at Las Vegas. At Vegas, would I have to run 14.400 or 14.790 to get hit?

Dave Casey · 11-19-2010, 01:14 PM

Alan, your thoughts on the weather issue have merit, but they need to keep it simple, adjusting for weather has so many variables and extra work involved that it ain't happening. You are beating a dead horse on that issue. good and bad weather happens at all altitudes and tracks over time it evens out. And yes I have been bitten by it and got hp and I am dealing with it.

I think this is a step in the right direction generally. The biggest moves are that all the lodrs runs count and I think what I am seeing is that runs at altitude count using the altitude index. All good in my book.

I am unsure how this affects hp on stick cars, just trying to decipher it. I think that in many cases the stick combo will get hit also, and I agree with that.

Mike, Thanks for your post and hard work on this.

Ed Wright · 11-19-2010, 01:18 PM

Mike I appreciate you giving us a look at the preliminary version.

Thanks

Mike Carr · 11-19-2010, 01:30 PM

If Stock and S/S were to ever go to one pound classes, you'd almost have to make it that a car can run it's natural class only. Reason being, take a 396/375 Camaro in B/SA, rated at 390. Under the current rules, it can run A and C also. On one pound classes, that's 780 total pounds of adjustable weight. Almost no car would (legally) have that capability. It would even be worse for a car that runs SS/BA, like a '64 Hemi. 500 hp rating = 1000 pounds to move to SS/AA and SS/CA if there were 1 pound classes. So making a car run it's natural class would be a good thing (and easiest) with 1 pound classes.

X-TECH MAN · 11-19-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

If Stock and S/S were to ever go to one pound classes, you'd almost have to make it that a car can run it's natural class only. Reason being, take a 396/375 Camaro in B/SA, rated at 390. Under the current rules, it can run A and C also. On one pound classes, that's 780 total pounds of adjustable weight. Almost no car would (legally) have that capability. It would even be worse for a car that runs SS/BA, like a '64 Hemi. 500 hp rating = 1000 pounds to move to SS/AA and SS/CA if there were 1 pound classes. So making a car run it's natural class would be a good thing (and easiest) with 1 pound classes.

Sounds good to me ! One class ONLY......the natural one and 1 pound breaks. Sticks and Automatic together. Small wt. adjustment allowed for the lower classes for trans used. It just MIGHT bring back some sponsors so a class win would be worth something.

Toby Lang · 11-19-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

In regards to altitude tracks now being included, does the -1.200 under mean -1.200 under the sea level or factored Index?

My class, DF/S. 15.60 sea level Index. 15.99 at Las Vegas. At Vegas, would I have to run 14.400 or 14.790 to get hit?

I would say it'll be whatever it reads on your time slip. Just like Comp. So a 14.79 at Vegas would get you an automatic hit. They already tried to give HP at factored tracks this year. You're right though, it probably does need some clarification.

I heard they are going to redo the altitude factors to make them closer to sea level, but I also heard they were going to set the automatic hit at .85 under.

-Toby

Toby Lang · 11-19-2010, 01:59 PM

Mark,

The new AHFS didn't change that much. They really only changed the automatic hit from 1.25 to 1.20 under. They also added the sliding scale for runs more than 1.25 under to bring an out of whack combo in line faster.

The trigger for review stayed at 1.00 under just like last season. That's 1.3 under the old index. The trigger used to be 1.15 under the old index which is .85 under the new index.

So the trigger is .15 softer and the automatic HP hit is .10 softer than it used to be.

-Toby

Bob Pagano · 11-19-2010, 02:08 PM

I agree with Mark, That is why all the so called new stockers should run in FX classes , with the parts and mods they have they are really not what they are being call. In some cases they are crate motor cars. They should run FX just like the FI class cars did until they got sorted out. This is going to make a bigger mess .

Kent Hanley · 11-19-2010, 02:26 PM

As you all know the SRAC doesn’t make the rules we just try and represent you and communicate your thoughts and ideas to the powers to be at NHRA. NHRA did listen and take some of your/our input into consideration when designing the new AHFS and any SRAC rep will tell you this has been work in progress and reflects a long month of working together.

The new AHFS isn’t perfect and will never be perfect for everyone and every combination but I personally think it’s a step in the right direction.

Adjusting runs based upon the weather at the time of the run to equal the playing field is impossible and we will never see that. The beauty of the new AHFS is it takes averages from all the runs and in all conditions. By including LRDS races this increases the number of runs from 23 races to around 64. So the data will better represent the true performance of an engine combination and average the great weather days at Vegas from the hot humid days of tracks at Columbus.

As for which index is NHRA using for altitude adjusted tracks. We need clarification on that BUT if you read the current AHFS it reads the same and this year at Vegas they factored cars based upon the local Vegas index. So cars that ran 1.25 under were hit on Tuesday UNTIL NHRA exercised the other new language in the rule which reads “the decision to adjust horsepower or to increase the index will be at the discretion on the AHFS Committee”. When NHRA did take something into consideration for the cars they hit because they took the HP off them a week later. What does that mean and how will they use that who knows. But it does also allow them the discretion to add HP to combinations they feel is not adjusting quickly enough.

For the record, surveys were done and submitted to NHRA sharing with them that the majority of racers would prefer if the new combinations be put into their separate class until they get properly adjusted just like they did with the FI cars were years ago. That doesn’t look like that is going to happen

Kent

CWhitney · 11-19-2010, 02:46 PM

Why doesn't NHRA just factor all the new cars with right HP. Then we would't be in this mess!

11-19-2010, 12:22 PM	#1
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs In regards to altitude tracks now being included, does the -1.200 under mean -1.200 under the sea level or factored Index? My class, DF/S. 15.60 sea level Index. 15.99 at Las Vegas. At Vegas, would I have to run 14.400 or 14.790 to get hit? __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

11-19-2010, 01:14 PM	#2
Dave Casey VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hampden, MA Posts: 1,201 Likes: 233 Liked 774 Times in 164 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs Alan, your thoughts on the weather issue have merit, but they need to keep it simple, adjusting for weather has so many variables and extra work involved that it ain't happening. You are beating a dead horse on that issue. good and bad weather happens at all altitudes and tracks over time it evens out. And yes I have been bitten by it and got hp and I am dealing with it. I think this is a step in the right direction generally. The biggest moves are that all the lodrs runs count and I think what I am seeing is that runs at altitude count using the altitude index. All good in my book. I am unsure how this affects hp on stick cars, just trying to decipher it. I think that in many cases the stick combo will get hit also, and I agree with that. Mike, Thanks for your post and hard work on this. __________________ Dave Casey 1330 STK

11-19-2010, 01:18 PM	#3
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs Mike I appreciate you giving us a look at the preliminary version. Thanks __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA Last edited by Ed Wright; 11-19-2010 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Still can't spell...

11-19-2010, 01:30 PM	#4
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs If Stock and S/S were to ever go to one pound classes, you'd almost have to make it that a car can run it's natural class only. Reason being, take a 396/375 Camaro in B/SA, rated at 390. Under the current rules, it can run A and C also. On one pound classes, that's 780 total pounds of adjustable weight. Almost no car would (legally) have that capability. It would even be worse for a car that runs SS/BA, like a '64 Hemi. 500 hp rating = 1000 pounds to move to SS/AA and SS/CA if there were 1 pound classes. So making a car run it's natural class would be a good thing (and easiest) with 1 pound classes. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

11-19-2010, 01:59 PM	#7
Toby Lang VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 2,133 Likes: 2 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: 2011 ahfs Mark, The new AHFS didn't change that much. They really only changed the automatic hit from 1.25 to 1.20 under. They also added the sliding scale for runs more than 1.25 under to bring an out of whack combo in line faster. The trigger for review stayed at 1.00 under just like last season. That's 1.3 under the old index. The trigger used to be 1.15 under the old index which is .85 under the new index. So the trigger is .15 softer and the automatic HP hit is .10 softer than it used to be. -Toby Last edited by Toby Lang; 11-19-2010 at 02:12 PM.

11-19-2010, 02:08 PM	#8
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 239 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs I agree with Mark, That is why all the so called new stockers should run in FX classes , with the parts and mods they have they are really not what they are being call. In some cases they are crate motor cars. They should run FX just like the FI class cars did until they got sorted out. This is going to make a bigger mess . __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA

11-19-2010, 02:26 PM	#9
Kent Hanley Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 130 Likes: 149 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs As you all know the SRAC doesn’t make the rules we just try and represent you and communicate your thoughts and ideas to the powers to be at NHRA. NHRA did listen and take some of your/our input into consideration when designing the new AHFS and any SRAC rep will tell you this has been work in progress and reflects a long month of working together. The new AHFS isn’t perfect and will never be perfect for everyone and every combination but I personally think it’s a step in the right direction. Adjusting runs based upon the weather at the time of the run to equal the playing field is impossible and we will never see that. The beauty of the new AHFS is it takes averages from all the runs and in all conditions. By including LRDS races this increases the number of runs from 23 races to around 64. So the data will better represent the true performance of an engine combination and average the great weather days at Vegas from the hot humid days of tracks at Columbus. As for which index is NHRA using for altitude adjusted tracks. We need clarification on that BUT if you read the current AHFS it reads the same and this year at Vegas they factored cars based upon the local Vegas index. So cars that ran 1.25 under were hit on Tuesday UNTIL NHRA exercised the other new language in the rule which reads “the decision to adjust horsepower or to increase the index will be at the discretion on the AHFS Committee”. When NHRA did take something into consideration for the cars they hit because they took the HP off them a week later. What does that mean and how will they use that who knows. But it does also allow them the discretion to add HP to combinations they feel is not adjusting quickly enough. For the record, surveys were done and submitted to NHRA sharing with them that the majority of racers would prefer if the new combinations be put into their separate class until they get properly adjusted just like they did with the FI cars were years ago. That doesn’t look like that is going to happen Kent

11-19-2010, 02:46 PM	#10
CWhitney Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sun Valley,Ca Posts: 86 Likes: 2 Liked 12 Times in 6 Posts	Re: 2011 ahfs Why doesn't NHRA just factor all the new cars with right HP. Then we would't be in this mess!