Why do we continually use the super classe as track testers?

[Alan Roehrich]

Rock and his partner bring up some great ideas.

The problem I see with a set procedure is that a set procedure ignores the differences in the tracks themselves, and there's no way to get all of the tracks to one spec for the racing surface.

That one problem makes it difficult, if not impossible, to have any sort of single set procedure, or even a set single traction compound.

We cannot ignore the differences in the tracks anymore than we can ignore the differences in weather conditions.

We also cannot ignore the cars and where the wrecks are happening, and it isn't just the .90 Super classes and their throttle stops, it's also the Top Dragster, Top Sportsman, and Pro Mod classes. A lot of what we are seeing is problems that happen when you apply a lot of power down track. The reality is that while there may be better traction down track than there was even ten years ago, there are a lot more cars applying a lot more power further down track than there were.

As far as prep that is biased towards the fuel cars goes, I'm not sure how this relates to Atco this past weekend, or for that matter the many Lucas races that have seen this type of problem in the recent past. Further, NHRA has admitted, after the Pro Stock guys called them out on it, that most of the "fuel prep" bias is that they don't spray past 1000'. Hardly an issue to a car that gets out of shape at 300'.

It is the truth that will help solve the problem. And what must be done is the racers must get together and go as a group to NHRA, and firmly remind them of their original motto and slogan. It can't be just one group, it has to be all of the sportsman racers.

[Greg Hill]

There is a difference in traction compounds being used at different tracks. This summer at Bowling Green the track was awesome even with 100 degree temps and probably 130 plus track temps. You could walk out on the starting line and it would just about pull your shoe off at any time. This past weekend at Ohio Valley traction was okay but not great. I saw a fair amount of people spin. I didn't go out on the track but other people told me there was no sticky on the starting line. When you looked at the rear tires on different race cars they were very smooth with nothing stuck to them after a run. I was told that Ohio Valley was using VP traction compound which I'm also told doesn't work that great at cooler temps. The old VHT mixed 50/50 with alcohol was always great at any temp.

[John DiBartolomeo]

First of all, there was something going on with the track surface at Atco that no one could understand. I've never seen that track surface look like that in all the years and times I've been there. Both Joe Sway and Bob Lang did everything they could to "fix" the problem to no avail. I was the unfortunate "test dummy" Friday night to go down the track before they pulled the plug and I can tell you I thought I had a Top Fuel dragster and the clutch malfunctioned because when I came off the stop, the tires went right up in smoke. I walked the track with Bob Lang and others immediately after the run and no one could understand the reason.

However, I believe there's a bigger issue here and that is driver safety. We've always crashed cars. I don't know the statistics but I wouldn't be surprised that there are any more cars crashing now then in any other year. My concern is that I don't care why the car crashed (obviously I care and want to know why), I just want to make sure the driver walks away. We're always going to crash cars. This is racing and it's dangerous. But we have to assure that the driver can walk away, something Tom Giordano wasn't able to do Saturday night for whatever reason. There are investigations into all accidents and I'd like to know why the results aren't known. When Woodro Josey ran into Lake Gainesville (or whatever that was), shortly thereafter there was a Tech Directive telling us to check our brake pedal rods. Why can't this be done with every crash? I don't want to hear about legal anything. We're dealing with lives here. This to me is the bigger issue. As I said, cars will crash, tracks will be junk, parts will break. We just have to find a way to make sure the driver is able to get out without injury.

[CBS]

They were super street cars..heavy....big tires.....the first pair got loose and crashed.........this isn't about throttle stops....its about safety.....and track conditions....

Any of the classes would have been loose.....no doubt about it....don't turn my thread into a throttle stop discussion....and A thru H stocker would have spun .....on that track....

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by CBS

They were super street cars..heavy....big tires.....the first pair got loose and crashed.........this isn't about throttle stops....its about safety.....and track conditions....

Any of the classes would have been loose.....no doubt about it....don't turn my thread into a throttle stop discussion....and A thru H stocker would have spun .....on that track....

rock, i absolutely believe you on that, however if a stocker spins at the hit, he loses the round. If a super car blows the tires off 300' out when it comes off the stop its moving a lot faster and much worse things can happen. Linear application of power will stay hooked up much better than applying power to a basically coasting chassis.

[Michael Beard]

Again, in the second pair of Super Street, the guy got loose at 800' or later. He certainly wasn't just coming off the stop. Any car with any power was going to have the same problem.

That was a problem downtrack. Now, LOOK at the rubber on the starting line.



You've got a high water table, and a great deal of rain leading into the weekend. The water table has to first recede, then you'd have to completely scrape the track, and start prep from scratch. There's no bandaid fix for this situation. That said, you can either 1) know that you are able to deal with it properly and do so, and 2) know that you're not *going* to be able to deal with it, and pull the plug in advance. I knew we were going to have a lot of rain leading into the weekend. That's one of many reasons why I waited until 7pm Thursday night to leave NC. I expected that if they thought they were going to encounter such conditions that they would not be able to overcome, that they would postpone the race. I've now been to two divisional races at Atco 12 years apart where I've won first round and had the race rescheduled to a time where I can come back. For me, it's been a money pit with no chance of any return. But it's even worse to lose cars and hurt drivers.

And AGAIN, this is FAR from an isolated incident in NHRA this year. WHY? What are they doing different that's not working? It's not like they're carrying the "wrong traction compound" barrels around from Phoenix.

[Rich Biebel]

Alan said we all have to stick together on this subject and he is right. John D. is 100% correct also. The answer is not to point fingers at t-stop category cars or say that T/D and T/S cars are to powerful. We are all racing on the same ractrack and not everyone wants to race a stocker whether it be fast or slow. The sport survived many years ago because of bracket cars and they were folded into NHRA's program. If you think NHRA sportsman racing and race tracks would have survived with just Stock and Super Stock cars participating your dreaming. All the cars racing today need to be accomodated and the track needs to be safe for all types of racing. I love Stockers....I love Super Stockers....I like racing period and race what I can, when I can. I have run 7 second cars and even my street car that ran 16's......I enjoy racing but not when we are worried for our safety or when I see someone else crash and possibly get seriously injured or worse. I have been there many times when racers have lost their lives or been seriously injured. It is terrible for our sport period!

There is an answer to this problem and I don't think the answer is do away with t-stops and timers or limit the horsepower that cars have......The HP is not going away anytime soon. NHRA could ban timers but that would wreak havoc on thousands of racers as they try to adapt.

The answer is to study the problem and determine what is causing a normally perfect racetrack to become so slick that cars can't make a run!

My friend and service manager here at work made one run at Atco in S/G on saturday. His car runs nearly 170mph. He said it was just fine out there.


What happened overnight to make the track unsafe? Cause and effect.......get the right people to look at this and an answer will be found and a corrective action can be determined........All of us just guess and guessing is not good enough when our lives are at stake....

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Alan said we all have to stick together on this subject and he is right. NHRA could ban timers but that would wreak havoc on thousands of racers as they try to adapt.

Rich and others....Im really not trying to be a smart ***** but how did the .90 class drivers drive their .90 cars before all of this electronic stuff become avaliable? Its just one new trick after the other maybe its time to do it another way. True it will take away the high HP engines but it would also make for less expensive, and safer racing. Im not saying the timers and throttle stops caused any of these wrecks but it sure didnt help either. Sorry.....this wasnt meant to be an argument for or against the electronics but food for thought.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by CBS

They were super street cars..heavy....big tires.....the first pair got loose and crashed.........this isn't about throttle stops....its about safety.....and track conditions....

Any of the classes would have been loose.....no doubt about it....don't turn my thread into a throttle stop discussion....and A thru H stocker would have spun .....on that track....

We've seen that before, Rock. You have a PM.