how to deal with the DP/CJ cars......

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

Some of you guys that are on the band wagon for new classes....can't even run within two dimes of the same class car, same combination, as the fast guys. Tweak and maximize your stuff before worrying about everybody else.
Yes, the factors are screwed up....absolutely! But some of you aren't even close with some of your own combos. Just my opinion.....and whaaaah...if you don't like it!

Sean, you're basically saying that the only people with a right to not like this are the fastest few in a class? that's like saying that only the wealthiest have the right to complain about a tax hike. Sure we're not one of the fastest A-AA cars out there (but no one else runs our same combo). Why in the hell should I go spend whatever it takes to find a few .10's when its not going to get me within .4 of the CJ's? We are constantly trying to go faster, and recently have had the reliability to test more and finally start learing what this thing wants, but the economy hasn't helped much lately. That's great, but there is no amount of money, or time, or effort that will make our combo (or any other for that matter) run with these factory cars, and they're just getting started. Hell a good running SS 427/425 may have a hard time with a new CJ heads up.

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

Sean, you're basically saying that the only people with a right to not like this are the fastest few in a class? that's like saying that only the wealthiest have the right to complain about a tax hike. Sure we're not one of the fastest A-AA cars out there (but no one else runs our same combo). Why in the hell should I go spend whatever it takes to find a few .10's when its not going to get me within .4 of the CJ's? We are constantly trying to go faster, and recently have had the reliability to test more and finally start learing what this thing wants, but the economy hasn't helped much lately. That's great, but there is no amount of money, or time, or effort that will make our combo (or any other for that matter) run with these factory cars, and they're just getting started. Hell a good running SS 427/425 may have a hard time with a new CJ heads up.

You obviously didn't read my post all the way. I didn't bring up anything about the wealthy or the have not's. In a eliminator where everyone has the right to run whatever they want.....this is not the minorities fault that the majority cannot compete. It's NHRA's fault for screwing the majority right out of a competitive combo. But Chad, you answered your own question, why is it the minorities fault that your combo isn't the best it can be? I've seen Joe Sorensen's car outrun a Drag Pak in a headsup race with his spare stuff. If a person hasn't maximized his own equipment to be able to run with some Of the same "old stuff," then why should that competitor have a say in what to do with the new stuff.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

I've seen Joe Sorensen's car outrun a Drag Pak in a headsup race with his spare stuff.

If you're talking about the race with Gaynor, word is that Gaynor spun, it was probably even posted here.

I have all the respect in the world for the Sorensons, and for DeArmond & McGlasson. But I'm not convinced that either of them can run 9.70 at B weight in 1000' air. I've seen a DP car get into the nine-seventies in 1000' of air in A, in bracket mode, with a lazy 60' time.

[FINESPLINE]

Sean, Your point is well taken , unfortunately the way the system is today --your only looking to run under the index far enough to qualify and then the bracket racing begins. Once in a awhile you run into a hitter in the class and go home early. Although it is a competitive sport a lot of gentlemen are not going to lose their house if they don"t cash. We all know the insanity of the investment. I don't believe the crying is for any individual but for what the nhra has done to the CLASS as a whole. Just my 2 cents----------John

[Mark Faul]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

Some of you guys that are on the band wagon for new classes....can't even run within two dimes of the same class car, same combination, as the fast guys. Tweak and maximize your stuff before worrying about everybody else.
Yes, the factors are screwed up....absolutely! But some of you aren't even close with some of your own combos. Just my opinion.....and whaaaah...if you don't like it!

Sean, maybe you need to look at it from the other side of the fence too. Your 96 Camaro was one of the fastest E/SA cars in the country when you had it. Compared to all the combos. You set the record at 10.70ish years ago. Would be in D now at roughly the same weight. Let's be generous and give you .3 for finding more hp and other tweaks. So let's say you can go 10.40 in good air. Go to Indy and lose .1 minimum, so you could go 10.50 theoretically if you still had the car, which would be a great run!

BUT, you'd be a whole bulb behind Irvin Johns!!!

Not whining, just a little perspective. I know I can't run with anyone! *

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

If you're talking about the race with Gaynor, word is that Gaynor spun, it was probably even posted here.

I have all the respect in the world for the Sorensons, and for DeArmond & McGlasson. But I'm not convinced that either of them can run 9.70 at B weight in 1000' air. I've seen a DP car get into the nine-seventies in 1000' of air in A, in bracket mode, with a lazy 60' time.

I understand the comparison between old and new. I think it's been beaten to death on this forum for quite some time. I think Alan, you have also misread my posts. Can you personally, run a 50 to 65 in AA? Or a high 70 to mid 80 in A? I know Sorensen can.....I've seen it with my own two eyes. Until you can personally run that good, an opinion about the new cars being put into a different class is a moot point, that's all I'm saying. Once again, IMHO...that's all.
These posts are to be directed to he competition dept at NHRA, they're the ones that have allowed this joke to play out. NHRA needs to address the factor of these combos. D cars in the nines.....E cars runnin 10 flat....the racers should be happy the racers of these combos exploited the potential.

[Dale Shannon]

Chad has the best idea, but don't stop there STREAMLINE the classes you run now 1 motor 1 body. A 396 camaro runs B, 428 cj runs B, a 351 ford mustang runs F a 350 camaro runs F ect. ect. ajust weight to only get to min. of the 1class. Think of what class at indy would be to watch then. just my 2 cents
Dale

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

I understand the comparison between old and new. I think it's been beaten to death on this forum for quite some time. I think Alan, you have also misread my posts. Can you personally, run a 50 to 65 in AA? Or a high 70 to mid 80 in A? I know Sorensen can.....I've seen it with my own two eyes. Until you can personally run that good, an opinion about the new cars being put into a different class is a moot point, that's all I'm saying. Once again, IMHO...that's all.
These posts are to be directed to he competition dept at NHRA, they're the ones that have allowed this joke to play out. NHRA needs to address the factor of these combos. D cars in the nines.....E cars runnin 10 flat....the racers should be happy the racers of these combos exploited the potential.

I didn't misread anything. No, our best pass in AA has been in the nine eighties. But then we don't spend too much time in air that is better than 2000 feet, either. We haven't had the car but a little over 4 1/2 years, we don't get to race a lot, and we haven't spent a ton of money, either. We buy parts, gas, oil, diesel, and pay our entry fees. I think that makes us entitled to an opinion and a voice.

I'll quote you here:

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

Just my opinion.....and whaaaah...if you don't like it!

Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Saying that the only people who have a legitimate complaint about the new cars are the guys who have the fastest traditional cars is the same as saying those are the only cars that are affected. That's B.S., pure and simple, and you should know that. Everyone who gets beat in a heads up by a store bought car with an absurd HP factor has a legitimate complaint. Because most of the people who have those cars would never have gone out and spent that kind of money on a traditional car for Stock with a reasonable HP factor. In fact, the vast majority would not have bought those cars if they weren't guaranteed to beat any fast traditional car with relative ease. Many of them will come right out and say so.

The idea that we don't have a complain if we all don't go out and spend $50K to try to run with the new cars (that we can't hope to run with no matter what) is about as stupid as rewriting the rules to allow for letting them into Stock to begin with.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

I understand the comparison between old and new. I think it's been beaten to death on this forum for quite some time. I think Alan, you have also misread my posts. Can you personally, run a 50 to 65 in AA? Or a high 70 to mid 80 in A? I know Sorensen can.....I've seen it with my own two eyes. Until you can personally run that good, an opinion about the new cars being put into a different class is a moot point, that's all I'm saying. Once again, IMHO...that's all.
These posts are to be directed to he competition dept at NHRA, they're the ones that have allowed this joke to play out. NHRA needs to address the factor of these combos. D cars in the nines.....E cars runnin 10 flat....the racers should be happy the racers of these combos exploited the potential.

Sean, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I think anyone who has invested the time and money to build and run a car in AA-G has a dog in this fight. I have all the respect in the world for the Sorensen's as well, they truly have a handle on the 427/425 that no one else does. However that doesn't exempt the rest of us from having an opinion.

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

Sean, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I think anyone who has invested the time and money to build and run a car in AA-G has a dog in this fight. I have all the respect in the world for the Sorensen's as well, they truly have a handle on the 427/425 that no one else does. However that doesn't exempt the rest of us from having an opinion.

Your opinion is like my opinion, simply an opinion. But you don't see me on here rewriting the rulebook in lieu of having big block GT cars removed from GT/AA because I can't run with them. Those combos also have soft factors. My family and I work hard to try and even run with them.
Chad, making up scenarios to present to NHRA is not an opinion....it's a request. Request them to refactor or defactor the older combos, but once again, most that want change have not maximized their own combo. DEAD HORSE, but I'll keep saying it.