Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning

[BlueOval Ralph]

Here is the problem There are 2 different set of Regs State & Fed. Look at it this way the same as Fed & State Income taxes 2 different sets of rule only thing different is that Stae Officals enforce the Fed Regs when it come to the DOT laws. If you are ever audited by the DOT in Michigan it is done by the Michigian Stae police (my company was and we passed with no problems but it was done by MSP officer.

Originally Posted by SS Engine Guy

Couple of post there that are kinda like BS. Before I bought my first rig C. No CDL (I have had one for many years anyway) Rec. vehicle tags as they didn't want to congest weigh stations and it was registered by the state as such being that its fits their description and the federal one. Plenty of physical records as I have an FAA physical once yearly anyway. Don't need them. Gave me a copy of the state and federal codes on OTR trucks. I have had several of these trucks over the years and never had a problem until last year. Since then I have had citations, tried to make me pay 1k for another driver (that they conveiniently had on hand) to drive to the next state line. That didn't work since I asked for proof of insurance covering him and my multi thousand dollar rig and payload. Then it was ok for me to drive. I have been to court 5 times either had ticket thrown out or won and successfully sued to recoup my out of pocket. Last time I threatened a harassment and unlawful detention suit against the officer/officers, county and state. That went over really well when my "out of state" lawyer (that dosen't eat at the same trough as the rest of the pigs) made that statement. The officer refused to testify knowing that there was a possibility that his ***** might be nailed to the wall over a 25k a year job.

What this boils down to is that it is not about saftey it is about money and using a pot metal badge and a rental uniform to extort money out of people that either won't fight it or are scared to fight it. Most of the officers I delt with didn't even have the proper certification to inspect a truck and they were working for various DOT's. You find that out in "disclosure" when it goes to court. Training and certifying these guys costs state money so it sometimes gets tossed I guess. Most I delt with didn't act like they even had a working knowledge of what the law actually said and couldn't find what they ticketed me for in their own state or federal guide lines when pressed. We, as racers need to fight this in every legal way possible as well as the sanctioning bodies need to fight this but apparantly they won't until it hits their pocketbook. I am all for abiding by the law but I also ask that law enforcement and states abide by it also. If we, as law abiding citizens continute to "lay down" instead of testing issues that affect us pretty soon nothing else matters.

[chevy620]

I hope they get things straightened out...but don't count on it any time soon.
The States and the DOT departments are operating on "fumes". Most of the Officiers are probably barely hanging on to their jobs due to budget cuts. Any revenue they bring in is probably a "get a Gold Star for that" type of entry in their personnel file.

The best thing to do is really simple:
Go to the State website for the DOT, know the rules and print them out. Florida has done it right. Register for an overlength Permit online. I think it cost me $10.00. You give then the description, VIN, personal info and you are set for a year. Think how many they sell to prevent tickets and it doesn;t take any time out of their DOT officier's regular duties.
Get a copy of the FMCSA regulations (most good truck stops will have booklet).
Make sure you rig is visually safe, ie: safety chains are attached and crossed under receiver, all lights worm, do not speed, do not tailgate and operate your rig like a professional.
Be ready for emergencies, safety triangles to display behind rig if brokedown, spare fuses, Road Assistance Program.

Personally, I went to the work to get a CDL four years ago mainly so I would be familiar with what the DOT guys might ask and expect.
I keep a regular Trucker's LogBook, record my Pre-Trip inspections and keep maintenance records with my LogBook.

We can't make new laws but we can be familiar with the current ones and prepare ourselves in advance of being stopped.

Then fight any ticket you get with as much effort as you can. WHen they lose enough battles, they will look for "easier prey".

Travel safe,

Jok Nicholson
Trailer Toad LLC

[Mackie Family Racing]

Rock et al,

For those that might have interest, let me provide an update on the long-winded saga that started with an overlength citation from a fine officer of the Michigan State Police Commercial Vehicle Enforcement unit (on the way to the Stanton divisional). I had my day in court in Petticoat Junction yesterday (aka, Ithaca, MI), so here's what I know based upon my experience, and also a lot of digging that Rock Haas has been doing... apologize upfront for a long post:

- several weeks back, from two completely different sources, Rock and I confirmed that the strictest reading of the applicable length statute for MI highways would indicate that motorhomes are technically not allowed to tow ANYTHING... notably, there is a catch-all clause at the end of the statute that says (quite clearly, unforunately) that any combination (e.g., motorhome and trailer) that is not specifically dealt with in the statute is prohibited. So for several folks that proudly posted that they are using a 18' motorhome to pull a 16' trailer... you are just as illegal (technically) as us gluttons that have 80' plus units.

The MI State Police went on to say in one of the responses we rec'd that because it is largely impractical to pull over every single motorhome that goes by pulling a trailer of any kind (plus the danger of potentially making the driver unhook and leave their fishing boat at the side of the road), the officer will defer to the commercial code, and (very) arbitrarily choose to apply the length limited specified for (straight) trucks and trailers -- which is 65 feet. It is important to note that the same clause in the statute provides for an unlimited length for semi-tractor and trailer combinations (i.e., 18-wheelers), as long as the trailer is 53 feet or less.

In practice, since most of us are probably heading to races at night, or returning on Sundays when DOT presence is somewhat limited, there's probably not that much chance of getting pulled over. In addition, the majority of the DOT focus is clearly on big trucks, hauling lots of weight, constantly in use, etc. -- so like me, one could drive for years and never be pulled over (unless you give them a reason, like speeding). And for the benefit of those that do have shorter race rigs -- you're right, they're less obvious, and much less likely to get pulled over than an 85 foot rig.

- to my specific case -- as I previously posted, I was given the option of paying a $240 fine, visiting with a magistrate and the officer (not, waste of time), or requesting a formal hearing with an opportunity for a pre-hearing negotiation with the Prosecutor. I chose option #3, and had two conversations with the ***'t Prosecutor. Without boring you with the gory details, it was obvious she was entirely unfamiliar with the statute... when she called me back several days later, she tried to argue that there was an obvious reference to recreational vehicle length in one of the clauses, and on that basis, had agreed with her boss, the Prosecutor, that there was no need to negotiate with me. When I pointed out to her that she had mis-read the statute -- and that the clause in question was actually referring to commercial vehicles transporting recreational vehicles (e.g., from the factory to the dealer), she sheepishly said, "Oh. You're right. Well hopefully the Judge will see it your way"

- in court yesterday, I thought God was looking out for me, as the officer failed to show at 9am. Unfortunately, as this was in Petticoat Junction, the court didn't have much else to do that was pressing (unlike busy courts which probably would have instantly said "have a nice day, case dismissed"), I was asked to wait for an hour for the dude to show up.

- the actual hearing was almost comical. The Prosecutor made her case briefly, which was largely factual (i.e., the rig was 82 feet). I was given ample opportunity to present my views, which were largely that I had a clean record, had driven for years in a rig of this type with no problems, and there were hundreds of others with similar rigs that were at Michigan's 80 racetracks each weekend... I then pressed on the lack of any specific restriction on motorhomes and trailers in the statute, and the fact that if the officer chose to arbitrarily apply the CV restrictions, it made no sense to me why he picked the limit for truck and trailer versus semi-tractor and trailer... my argument being that a truck is something you put cargo/load into, which is pulling a trailer, versus a semi-tractor with a sleeper -- that is just a shorter version of what we drive.

- good news -- Judge agreed with virtually all of my points. Bad news -- he obviously had his mind made up that he was going to ding me for the fine regardless, which in the end, he did. He argued that the intent of the statute was to ensure public safety, and thus he said the limits should apply to motorhome/trailer combos -- even if it doesn't say so -- and for whatever reason (probably he wanted the money), he stuck at 65 feet. His ***-cover comment at the end was that it was a no point citation that wouldn't even be abstracted to the Secretary of State (DMV in MI terms), and if I thought he had mis-interpreted the statute, I could file an appeal within 21 days.

Apologize for the lengthy post -- but I assume only those of you with any interest would read it anyway. It's clear the only way we're going to solve this -- for everyone, not just those of us with big rigs -- is to get an exemption/permitting process incorporated into the law. Rock has been working this angle with his State Representative, and I have spoken to several contacts that I have (including Roger Penske) to have them put a little heat on the folks in Lansing to get something passed quickly.

So good luck everyone. Don't know what to tell folks that are dealing with the officer that is lurking at the Port Huron - Sarnia bridge... for everyone else, I can only suggest to avoid giving the boys a reason to pull you over, travel at night/Sunday's, tow your stacker behind your Chevette... whatever works for you.

Scott

[cicero819]

Scott, thank you for posting, unfortunately when the political will isn't part of the solution, all your common sense will be ignored unless your willing to shore up some politician campaign, than you can expect he'll be as happy as a teenager in a hookers convention to help. The more people who stand up to this, a better society we leave for the next generation.CR

[Michael Lyons]

This was ALL about the money with all the revenue the state isn't getting anymore with all the people out of work and businesses leaving. I knew you wouldn't get out of some kind of fine. They could dismiss all of it but they were getting some of your money. I suspect its like this in alot of states these days but I still say Michigan sucks bad, and even though I don't know we'll be any better in 6 months I can't wait for this govenor to be gone!!

[FED 387]

It seems to me that this is an area that the different racing assoc. need to get involved. Whether it be IHRA,NHRA,NASCAR or what ever ALL racers utilizing these types of vehicles need to have these orginazations go to bat for them and get some wording in the statutes regarding motorhomes and trailers being towed by motorhomes. A CDL should not be needed in the average case maybe when you start getting into the 70-85 foot range different rules apply but not for some schmuck in a 30 Ft Winnebago towing a 24 Ft trailer. Comp 387

[Bob Pagano]

Track Operators need to step up, they are the ones that will be hurt in the long run. It took a track owner in NC (Earwood) to start things rolling, NASCAR followed suit along with other tracks. Racers on there own will not be heard, track owners making less income due to a poor turn out have a louder voice due to less income = less taxes to the state. The states need a permit, they will make more that way then time spent writing tickets. None race motorhomes pull a car behind so it also has its effects on tourism. I live near I-20 in TX and 90% of the motorhomes are pulling a car or trailer.

[BlueOval Ralph]

So get ready from what I have heard from the Indiana State police ther will be a full court press on vehicles coming to US Nationals as I have been told their limt for Motor Home & Trailer is 60 foot.
Ralph

[John Lang]

Blue Oval Ralph,,,,,, I stopped at a weigh station in Indiana, I-94 just past the Mich line ,with my motorhome and trailer, (73.5 ft ) , where i asked them about the length law and was told that they have more important things to do than mess with every Motorhome pulling a trailer ! End of story, and I left, was told to have a safe trip.......John

[njk53]

What an officer at a weigh station says and what the state police on the road will do can be very different.

Due to the economy and tax revenue loss of all states, you can bet the state troopers will be out in full force for Indy so, beware.

We have a city in Metro Detroit that has been accused by the U. S Department of Justice for writing tickets as a means of producing revenue.
In 2009 they wrote approx. 43,000 tickets and the year prior wrote 29,000.
How can you deny you aren't writing tickets for revenue, but the city officials certainly did.