Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning

Mackie Family Racing · 07-11-2010, 07:23 PM

Boys,

Well for those of us that thought the MI DoT were just picking on Canadian farmers, we were wrong... guess they also like Canadians that live in Michigan (i.e., me), too

We became the latest "overlength victims" on Friday, just south of Ithaca on M-127, on our way to the div'l at Stanton. Having read Bill's posts, and advice from Rock and others, I gave it all a try, but to no avail... We drove away (thankfully) with a citation for 17 feet over-length... 82'3" against a 65' "law"... My apologies to those of you that heard me crying about this at Mid-Michigan, but here again are the facts... advice, counsel and names of traffic attorneys in Gratiot County appreciated:

- we have a 45' Renegade (he measured it separately), and a 32' T&E stacker, with a 5' tongue... 82'3" according to Barney Fife

- I have my CDL, and up until Friday, I'm proud to say that I've driven for 33 years without a single traffic ticket of any kind... a completely clean record. Barney Fife wasn't particularly interested in that factoid either.

- after abusing me for not instantly pulling over onto the 4' wide shoulder -- I drove down another half mile to a lane merge from a dirt road -- he instantly went to the overlength gig. When he approached me from behind, he drove forward and back a couple 'o times, then pulled me over. I was doing 55mph at the time, and minding my business in light traffic.

- after measuring the rig, he asked me to open the side door. This was after he asked me if the water that was pouring out of the freshwater overflow (the tanks were full, the shoulder was heavily banked) was "grey water"... He then gave me about ten minutes of abuse about racing for a business (for those of you that know me, I realize you're probably laughing hysterically at this point), if we raced for money, why there were contingency stickers on the dragster, etc. He apparently took great interest in the provocative "Mackie Family Racing, Milford, MI" that we have on the back of the trailer... Eventually, he dropped all this nonsense and just focused on the length.

- he had a copy of the "Truck Driver's Handbook" handy, and gave it to me... he then indicated that the applicable legislation for motorhomes wasn't in that book -- and offered to print off the right stuff from his patrol vehicle. In the end, what he handed me was exactly the same stuff that Rock Haas had provided a link to somewhere in this message thread... and we all know that there's nothing in those regs that says anything about the max length for a motorhome/trailer combo

- I considered arguing hard when he gave me the paper -- and then decided not, as he'd already paper-clipped the citation to it... No fine specified on the citation -- I get the pleasure of contacting Judge Judy in Ithaca on Monday to find out how many children we have to sell to pay the fine.

- based on discussions with Rock and others at the track, I fully intend to fight the ticket. I also will make every effort to contact the gentleman that Rock spoke to at the MI DoT and try to get something from him in writing.

We made it home in one piece, although I panicked every time I saw K-car with a pizza bubble on the roof... thought it was another one of our trusted Commercial Vehicle Enforcement boys on duty.

All joking aside -- anyone that has fought this fight (in Michigan, please) -- let me know. As I'd say at least 50% of the rigs at Stanton this weekend were "overlength", per Barney Fife, I would imagine final resolution of this matter is critical. As I've posted previously, a 75' rule isn't going to help a lot of us... so I'd suggest the permit route (or special regs, like NC)... I have some gov't contacts through work, but if anyone has a better way -- thru a high school buddy that's in the legislature, or whatever-- it sounds like it'd be time well spent.

Sorry for the long post.

Scott Mackie

dartman · 07-11-2010, 09:43 PM

state by state site

http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

X-TECH MAN · 07-12-2010, 07:27 AM

Id say it was time for SHORTER (smaller) rigs to avoid this BS and besides the race track pits are not getting any larger to accomodate these monster rigs. No wonder there is not enough room for everyone as of late. Face the reality of the fact that the DOT length law is what it is no matter how important you think you are.

63corvette · 07-12-2010, 08:43 AM

The DOT law is 75 feet on interstates.
It is the State Laws that change that on the other roads.
One standard across the US would make it easier for everyone.
My motorhome and trailer is over length in several States but most seem not to pick on motorhomes. The Totorhomes which look more like a truck is usually the ones who get picked on.
If you look at most 18 wheelers total length when you are at a truck stop nearly all with a sleeper cab are a total length of 70 to 75 ft or more. I have not seen them being hassled for length issues.
One standard across all the States would be a big step forward for those travelling across the country but that happening is a pretty long stretch.
Just My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

mike withers · 07-12-2010, 10:01 AM

AS per one standard across the US--"be carefull what you wish for." Because of the Interstate Commerce clause in our constitution Congress and the feds set Interstate rules for Tracter trailers. To have them jump into the regulation of Motorhome/trailer rigs used by racers may have many other consequences i.e.CDL requirements for all, stopping at all weight scales etc.
It appears the issue has only surfaced in a handfull of states. I suggest that we racers contact a friend in our respective state legislatures and seek a resolution using the North Carolina model. State legislatures belong to a national association and have access to codes in all states. We have statistics on our side as fortunately few race rigs are envolved in major accidents. Track operators and motor sports councils (if your state has one) are good allies. Don't forget the circle track guys who (while lacking focus and a since of directiion) use a lot of big race rigs. former state senator- Mike Withers

BOO BOO · 07-12-2010, 03:26 PM

Scott, HATE to ask but how much $$$$ did the state of Mich. make off this citation?
Something needs to change.
Chuck Siegler
328c S/G S/C

Mackie Family Racing · 07-12-2010, 05:23 PM

Chuck,

no problem... plan to keep you all posted, for what it's worth... and I realize some of the crowd isn't interested in what happens 'cause they're not concerned about important people (or something like that...)

I spoke to the Court today, and they hadn't rec'd the ticket... although when I referenced the regulation the officer put on the citation, she said "$240".... ouch, but perhaps not as bad as some states I've heard. Will be confirmed when she actually has the tickie in hand...

Best part is that the Court clerk claims I can fight it thru an informal hearing with a magistrate and the officer (no thanks), or a formal hearing with a Judge -- which is preceded by a negotiating call from the Prosecutor -- at no extra charge (i.e., court costs). I'll likely take option #2 just to press the point of having them explain to me what the law supposedly is -- and where it is spelled out in the reference document.... Rock gave me the number today for the DoT folks... will also call them.

Easy route is to just pay the fine, but maybe I can make some progress and/or set a precedent that might be helpful to others passing thru our fine state.

srm

07-11-2010, 07:23 PM	#1
Mackie Family Racing Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milford, MI Posts: 179 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning Boys, Well for those of us that thought the MI DoT were just picking on Canadian farmers, we were wrong... guess they also like Canadians that live in Michigan (i.e., me), too We became the latest "overlength victims" on Friday, just south of Ithaca on M-127, on our way to the div'l at Stanton. Having read Bill's posts, and advice from Rock and others, I gave it all a try, but to no avail... We drove away (thankfully) with a citation for 17 feet over-length... 82'3" against a 65' "law"... My apologies to those of you that heard me crying about this at Mid-Michigan, but here again are the facts... advice, counsel and names of traffic attorneys in Gratiot County appreciated: - we have a 45' Renegade (he measured it separately), and a 32' T&E stacker, with a 5' tongue... 82'3" according to Barney Fife - I have my CDL, and up until Friday, I'm proud to say that I've driven for 33 years without a single traffic ticket of any kind... a completely clean record. Barney Fife wasn't particularly interested in that factoid either. - after abusing me for not instantly pulling over onto the 4' wide shoulder -- I drove down another half mile to a lane merge from a dirt road -- he instantly went to the overlength gig. When he approached me from behind, he drove forward and back a couple 'o times, then pulled me over. I was doing 55mph at the time, and minding my business in light traffic. - after measuring the rig, he asked me to open the side door. This was after he asked me if the water that was pouring out of the freshwater overflow (the tanks were full, the shoulder was heavily banked) was "grey water"... He then gave me about ten minutes of abuse about racing for a business (for those of you that know me, I realize you're probably laughing hysterically at this point), if we raced for money, why there were contingency stickers on the dragster, etc. He apparently took great interest in the provocative "Mackie Family Racing, Milford, MI" that we have on the back of the trailer... Eventually, he dropped all this nonsense and just focused on the length. - he had a copy of the "Truck Driver's Handbook" handy, and gave it to me... he then indicated that the applicable legislation for motorhomes wasn't in that book -- and offered to print off the right stuff from his patrol vehicle. In the end, what he handed me was exactly the same stuff that Rock Haas had provided a link to somewhere in this message thread... and we all know that there's nothing in those regs that says anything about the max length for a motorhome/trailer combo - I considered arguing hard when he gave me the paper -- and then decided not, as he'd already paper-clipped the citation to it... No fine specified on the citation -- I get the pleasure of contacting Judge Judy in Ithaca on Monday to find out how many children we have to sell to pay the fine. - based on discussions with Rock and others at the track, I fully intend to fight the ticket. I also will make every effort to contact the gentleman that Rock spoke to at the MI DoT and try to get something from him in writing. We made it home in one piece, although I panicked every time I saw K-car with a pizza bubble on the roof... thought it was another one of our trusted Commercial Vehicle Enforcement boys on duty. All joking aside -- anyone that has fought this fight (in Michigan, please) -- let me know. As I'd say at least 50% of the rigs at Stanton this weekend were "overlength", per Barney Fife, I would imagine final resolution of this matter is critical. As I've posted previously, a 75' rule isn't going to help a lot of us... so I'd suggest the permit route (or special regs, like NC)... I have some gov't contacts through work, but if anyone has a better way -- thru a high school buddy that's in the legislature, or whatever-- it sounds like it'd be time well spent. Sorry for the long post. Scott Mackie

07-12-2010, 07:27 AM	#3
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning Id say it was time for SHORTER (smaller) rigs to avoid this BS and besides the race track pits are not getting any larger to accomodate these monster rigs. No wonder there is not enough room for everyone as of late. Face the reality of the fact that the DOT length law is what it is no matter how important you think you are.

07-12-2010, 08:43 AM	#4
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 553 Likes: 128 Liked 361 Times in 104 Posts	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning The DOT law is 75 feet on interstates. It is the State Laws that change that on the other roads. One standard across the US would make it easier for everyone. My motorhome and trailer is over length in several States but most seem not to pick on motorhomes. The Totorhomes which look more like a truck is usually the ones who get picked on. If you look at most 18 wheelers total length when you are at a truck stop nearly all with a sleeper cab are a total length of 70 to 75 ft or more. I have not seen them being hassled for length issues. One standard across all the States would be a big step forward for those travelling across the country but that happening is a pretty long stretch. Just My 2 Cents Rick Cates

07-12-2010, 10:01 AM	#5
mike withers Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 67 Likes: 4 Liked 3 Times in 1 Post	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning AS per one standard across the US--"be carefull what you wish for." Because of the Interstate Commerce clause in our constitution Congress and the feds set Interstate rules for Tracter trailers. To have them jump into the regulation of Motorhome/trailer rigs used by racers may have many other consequences i.e.CDL requirements for all, stopping at all weight scales etc. It appears the issue has only surfaced in a handfull of states. I suggest that we racers contact a friend in our respective state legislatures and seek a resolution using the North Carolina model. State legislatures belong to a national association and have access to codes in all states. We have statistics on our side as fortunately few race rigs are envolved in major accidents. Track operators and motor sports councils (if your state has one) are good allies. Don't forget the circle track guys who (while lacking focus and a since of directiion) use a lot of big race rigs. former state senator- Mike Withers __________________ Mike Withers 1195 SS

07-12-2010, 03:26 PM	#6
BOO BOO Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 149 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning Scott, HATE to ask but how much $$$$ did the state of Mich. make off this citation? Something needs to change. Chuck Siegler 328c S/G S/C

07-11-2010, 09:43 PM	#2
dartman Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: N.S. CANADA Posts: 498 Likes: 161 Liked 68 Times in 41 Posts	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning state by state site http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm __________________ 1231 FS/D Drag Pak 1231 E/SA 71 Demon Kelly MacKay

07-12-2010, 05:23 PM	#7
Mackie Family Racing Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milford, MI Posts: 179 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Michigan RV's + Trailer Length Warning Chuck, no problem... plan to keep you all posted, for what it's worth... and I realize some of the crowd isn't interested in what happens 'cause they're not concerned about important people (or something like that...) I spoke to the Court today, and they hadn't rec'd the ticket... although when I referenced the regulation the officer put on the citation, she said "$240".... ouch, but perhaps not as bad as some states I've heard. Will be confirmed when she actually has the tickie in hand... Best part is that the Court clerk claims I can fight it thru an informal hearing with a magistrate and the officer (no thanks), or a formal hearing with a Judge -- which is preceded by a negotiating call from the Prosecutor -- at no extra charge (i.e., court costs). I'll likely take option #2 just to press the point of having them explain to me what the law supposedly is -- and where it is spelled out in the reference document.... Rock gave me the number today for the DoT folks... will also call them. Easy route is to just pay the fine, but maybe I can make some progress and/or set a precedent that might be helpful to others passing thru our fine state. srm