Once again a bogus combination

[Mark Callanan]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Mark, you really aren't going to like it when Jerry Hatch from you home state comes out with his DP. Some of your comments are a little close, but I am a true car salesman, and have been for 42 years and the 325 people I employ like me being a true car salesman. You really don't know me very well, but that's ok. I'm a big boy and can take the heat. I have been squabbling with people over combo's for years, and plan on doing some more. And you might check around. Over the many years I have probably tried to help the Sportsman and especially Stock and Super Stock as much as anyone. If you feel your can cannot compete, the do as I did, get another combo. Maybe you can check with Bob Lang, your division directory as to my involvement with the SRAC. If you don't like it, get me unelected. That's the American way. It's sorta thankless anyway. As to the 'perversion' of the rules, I didn't do anything at all. Mopar asked and got approval from NHRA to make 100 special Drag Pak cars, with 3 engine combos that are outlined in the guide and approved before the first one was built. I own and race #16. As it turns out, Mopar will build an additional 50 DP cars. We also got 3 Hemi Cudas, which I guess they got 'perverted' in l968, which is the year I became a true car salesman.

Well one thing is for sure if Scott Gove builds it it will be fast

[Stewart Way]

Yes, I'm a Mopar guy. Yes, I think the DP's are underated. Yes, I'm building a 5.7 for SS/GT but I am slower than the AHFS so by the time I'm running the HP may be in line.
That said, I have a couple questions.
Bruce, you stated that this debate will be going on next year if the racers don't come to a "reasonable compromise" on this issue. What would that be? Reasonalbe compromise is like affordabe healthcare. Very different meanings to different folks. I don't think anyone has stated that the DPs and CJs are factored correctly, but beating each other up over it solves nothing. Any changes will come thru NHRA, not racer compromise, and I think you are addressing that..
Mark, what rules were bent to get these cars in the class guide. Someone tried to make the point earlier that the rule of 50 was put in recently to allow these cars but that was written into the rulebook in the 90's.
A good debate is an enjoyable mental exercise but when it sinks to character assassination, comments based on emotion rather than fact and name calling (another thread on this topic) in serve little purpose other than a place to vent frustration and emotion. For that I use a speed bag.
Lets play nice. It's nobodys fault on this forum that these cars were built by the OEMs and in the case of the DPs I think most of them were purchased before the specs even hit the class guide in 3/09.

[Bob Pagano]

Is the horse dead yet ? We all know its not right but the character assassination has to stop,bad mouthing another racer just is not right based on what car or class he runs. Stewart you are right on.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Stewart Way

Yes, I'm a Mopar guy. Yes, I think the DP's are underated. Yes, I'm building a 5.7 for SS/GT but I am slower than the AHFS so by the time I'm running the HP may be in line.
That said, I have a couple questions.
Bruce, you stated that this debate will be going on next year if the racers don't come to a "reasonable compromise" on this issue. What would that be? Reasonalbe compromise is like affordabe healthcare. Very different meanings to different folks. I don't think anyone has stated that the DPs and CJs are factored correctly, but beating each other up over it solves nothing. Any changes will come thru NHRA, not racer compromise, and I think you are addressing that..
Mark, what rules were bent to get these cars in the class guide. Someone tried to make the point earlier that the rule of 50 was put in recently to allow these cars but that was written into the rulebook in the 90's.
A good debate is an enjoyable mental exercise but when it sinks to character assassination, comments based on emotion rather than fact and name calling (another thread on this topic) in serve little purpose other than a place to vent frustration and emotion. For that I use a speed bag.
Lets play nice. It's nobodys fault on this forum that these cars were built by the OEMs and in the case of the DPs I think most of them were purchased before the specs even hit the class guide in 3/09.

Good posting Stewart.
We have fourteen pages of posts with finger pointing and blaming racers, and probably the topic will continue on.
Let's be real and point the fingers in the right direction: NHRA

Bruce, the debate will continue as long as people keep adding coal to the fire. On the same token, I do not understand your statement of "reasonable compromise" either.
Are you implying that "reasonable compromise" would entail racers with CJ's and DP's parking their cars until NHRA re-factors the engines?

I know that many of the people that have complained, if they had the funds, they would also join the fray and would purchase a CJ or DP. And if GM offered an equivalent, many of them would be buying one too and probably we would not be having these postings.

Also, I feel that attacks on people like Jeff Teuton are out of line. Jeff has been one of the biggest supporters of the sport in many ways.

It is tiring to read the same rhetoric again and again; let's aim the energy to the real culprit of the problem: NHRA

[Jack McCarthy]

jeff... i know your a nice guy but it is ok to tell them to kiss your *****...then go have a beer, hell have two, one for me...

no one gave a **** when the caddy was discovered in the nhra class guide book cause i was the only one getting his ***** kicked but now when the guys who have cars in the "early" alphabet classes get the short end of the class guide this post gets written like it should be a federal crime...

anyway have a beer , ill have one here, and good luck with your new car... should'a painted orange like the super bee

your kentucky buddy
captain jack

[Bruce Noland]

Guys,
A reasonable compromise would be to simply put the crate motor cars in their own classes within Stock and Super Stock. Nobody has ever given a reason why this wouldn't work for everybody. Sure the guys with the new cars want to think of them as new Stock Eliminator cars and they want to take every advantage that is made available to them. But we aren't dicussing advantage. An avantage is when you need a 2 pound hammer and walk over to the tool drawer and whip out a 3 pound hammer. This is a 28 pound sledge hammer that we are discussing. Nobody disagreed with my thoughts about privileged rules in other sports. SO, yes we could come to a decent compromise. And thanks to the Internet this debate will continue to roar well into the future.

An OEM executive was quoted during the Las Vegas race - "we were not going to come back to drag racing unless we enjoyed certain advantages." Well they got their advantages. Let's see how it works out for them.

One more thing. What makes you guys think we have no rights? Is it written down some where that we don't have rights?

Thanks to Kenny for allowing me and others to post our thoughts on this issue. I know first hand that this is a difficult experience and I appreciate his tolerance. We always come out of these debates with more knowlege and understanding of the issues that effect our sport. The weary old horse may be on life support but he ain't dead.

[Mark Callanan]

Jeff
I have thought about this thread all afternoon
I feel very strong about this as you can imagine and see
As I look over what I typed I feel some of what I said was harsh
I am sorry for that, I still feel very strong about this but I am done posting on this issue

[James Perrone]

Jeff
I am not happy that your combo is KILLER FAST.
You are running in a class I run with a 69 Nova ,
But I gotta give you applaues and credit for PICKING THE RIGHT COMBO.
Wish I could sell my 2 cars and build one like yours..
It not your fault NHRA has SCEAWED UP BIG TIME
These cars SHOULD BE IN Super Stock or GIVE THEM A CRATE MOTOR CLASS
Also not one person posting on this thread Other than Mark and I run this class.
Now Mark don't take this personel
But you have about zero chance of running one of these cars .
You dont race a whole lot anymore..And the only why to get at this combo HP is to chase after these cars at A CLASS RACE AND TAKE SOME LUMPS,
But I havent seen one yet at a CLASS RACE [ THANK GOD] .But the problem is every one will run and hide [ME INCLUDED} But again NHRA SCEAWED UP MOVING THE INDEXES..
NHRA SHOULD HAVE MOVE THE TRIGGER DOWN UNDER THE OLD INDEXES
Well guess what folks we race in NHRA THEY MAKE THE RULE THE WAY THEY WANT, IT SUCKS
But Im TOO STUPID TO QUIT..
Also to everyone THANKS FOR YOUR CONCERN DONATIONS ACCEPTED..

[Alan Roehrich]

There is no need for animosity towards people running the new cars, and I don't have any, some of them are friends of mine.

It was NHRA that allowed this to happen, Ford and Chrysler are all too willing participants. GM may have joined them had they had the money and the parts, or they might not have.

It's really sad that an OEM (or OEM's) had to be lured back with promises of being able to write their own rules and their own factors, at the expense of the majority of the racers. That it happened is a sure sign of the type of people involved in the process, on all sides.

Thanks to Ken for providing a place for, and for allowing, civil discourse about this and other issues. Unfortunately, there are some people with whom you cannot have a civil discussion, they spoil it for everyone else.

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by James Perrone

Jeff
I am not happy that your combo is KILLER FAST.
You are running in a class I run with a 69 Nova ,
But I gotta give you applaues and credit for PICKING THE RIGHT COMBO.
Wish I could sell my 2 cars and build one like yours..
It not your fault NHRA has SCEAWED UP BIG TIME
These cars SHOULD BE IN Super Stock or GIVE THEM A CRATE MOTOR CLASS
Also not one person posting on this thread Other than Mark and I run this class.
Now Mark don't take this personel
But you have about zero chance of running one of these cars .
You dont race a whole lot anymore..And the only why to get at this combo HP is to chase after these cars at A CLASS RACE AND TAKE SOME LUMPS,
But I havent seen one yet at a CLASS RACE [ THANK GOD] .But the problem is every one will run and hide [ME INCLUDED} But again NHRA SCEAWED UP MOVING THE INDEXES..
NHRA SHOULD HAVE MOVE THE TRIGGER DOWN UNDER THE OLD INDEXES
Well guess what folks we race in NHRA THEY MAKE THE RULE THE WAY THEY WANT, IT SUCKS
But Im TOO STUPID TO QUIT..
Also to everyone THANKS FOR YOUR CONCERN DONATIONS ACCEPTED..

Ah James, I run this class also, that is one of the reasons I voiced my opinion several times. Thanks for the recognition. Jim



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