Next Debate.

lstanford · 02-13-2009, 11:09 AM

We have beat the Cobra Jet debate pretty much to death or until after Phoenix. Ford will be releasing twin Turbo "Ecoboost" 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines in the next year. What if they build a Mustang with this combination? This will be another power adder and I think the next debate should be " supercharger or twin turbochargers". In the land of "what if" Ford racing builds a Mustang Cobra Jet with a twin turbo V6. This harks back to the Buicks of the 1980's but the technology has come a long way. I am amazed at the "run what you brung races" where these turbo cars are showing up. Whether you like it or not, I think this will be the direction of future high performance cars including (ugh) the imports.

junior barns · 02-13-2009, 11:24 AM

I agree! This is going to be the future. NHRA knows what these cars are capable of and I think this new mustang will be Fords one freeby! All others will be factored alot better from here forward!

Just my opinion!

ps I dont't think we will see alot of these anyway because the kids today wont go and sit for 4 days and get 2-3 passes before the race starts! No way will they put up with this Bull Sh** only suckers like us!!!

CycloneFE · 02-13-2009, 09:58 PM

FE,

I think you are on to something regarding power adders. I sat in a Mercury convention in 1998 and they were introducing the new Cougars. They were trying to tell us the future was a FWD car with a simple power adder such as the Cougar with a supercharger, very little else. I thought they were smoking something, but now I think somebody may have been onto it. Too bad they dropped the Cougar. Later on I saw them introduce the Montego(again) and I told them it sounds great, just stick with it, well we know where that is too. Maybe Mercury is heading that direction.

My point is you are not the only one seeing this.

goinbroke2 · 02-13-2009, 11:49 PM

Oh they're coming don't worry! The question is, how will they be factored. Also , how much is left? A 460 ford or 500 caddy from the early 70's has lots of room to improve, a maxed out v-6 won't have too much more room to go. Stocker tricks and more boost will give it 50-100hp at the most. A 460 built as a stocker will do lots better than it's 300hp rating.

Regardless...The HP war might be coming back!! (weird to say in these economic times but hey, they're being built)!!

big blue galaxie · 02-14-2009, 02:33 AM

Unless there is a rule on injector size and boost level, the forced induction cars can potentially do a lot better than 50-100hp, not to mention the torque and rpm increases that come with doing the stocker tricks to them. That Cobra Jet is a pulley and calibration change away from 600hp at the wheels or more, and with motor work and exhaust that may hit 700+. It's a 9 second car, and unless GM and Chrysler come up with something that can compensate for the Ford's extra valve area, supercharger and rpm capability, they are going to get smoked.

GUMP · 02-14-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big blue galaxie

Unless there is a rule on injector size

That would be the same as making all carbed cars run the stock jets.

Quote:

and boost level

A good start would be to police pulley sizes on super charged cars. On turbo charged cars the factory turbo has to be run. I kind of remember one Turbo Regal getting tossed for the wrong impeller a few years back. So, maybe they do check that stuff.

big blue galaxie · 02-15-2009, 10:24 AM

Alright, barring a rule book and a proper quote, let's go with the ability to run any injector. With just injectors, fuel pump upgrade and exhaust, and the calibration work, and a pulley change, that's 700hp at the wheels. The streetcars are doing that now. With a dedicated build and high rpm valvetrain, more compression (these days running 9 to 1, 10 to 1 static with boost is normal with a modern chamber) because of the blueprinting, and an agressive tune on race fuel (or E85 if it's allowed since I think the car stock is flex fuel capable, could be wrong) it could hit 1000hp. Even if the pullies are policed, the extra rpm from "stocker" style cams will more than make up for it. Going thru the traps at 8000 plus, that blower will probably pumping 20 or more pounds of boost. Low 9's, maybe 8 second quartermile? And here's the funny thing, I am a Ford guy and I feel conflicted about letting a car like this loose in a "stock" style class where the vast majority of the cars are naturally aspirated. The bottom ends are strong enough from the factory to support 1200 rwhp. Heck, Helion put a twin turbo kit that integrates into the blower system for the 4.6 Cobra and 5.4 GT500's and made something like 1000-1200hp at the wheels; and it's totally streetable. Civilized until you give it gas and the world goes completely backwards. This car in the right hands can totally dominate the class, which just messes up the racing. It won't be close. The new Challenger will not keep up unless it can spin to 10000 rpms and live, and have a huge weight break, Chevy the same thing.

X-TECH MAN · 02-15-2009, 10:34 AM

THE CURE......Outlaw all supercharged and turbo charged engine combos OR have a seperate class/classes for them. Then its a dial in (Bracket racing). Problem cured !!!

big blue galaxie · 02-15-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

THE CURE......Outlaw all supercharged and turbo charged engine combos OR have a seperate class/classes for them. Then its a dial in (Bracket racing). Problem cured !!!

I'll go with the seperate class, it's the only thing that makes sense. I don't understand why Ford was allowed to do this anyway, seeing that they are about to introduce a larger N/A modular motor. A proper Cobra Jet would have been to build on the new engine platform a 428ci engine with all the good stuff and been done with it.

Mark Yacavone · 02-15-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

THE CURE......Outlaw all supercharged and turbo charged engine combos OR have a seperate class/classes for them. Then its a dial in (Bracket racing). Problem cured !!!

Oh great!
Stick me with the 142 mph CJ's huh?

02-13-2009, 11:09 AM	#1
lstanford Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 312 Likes: 1 Liked 134 Times in 32 Posts	Next Debate. We have beat the Cobra Jet debate pretty much to death or until after Phoenix. Ford will be releasing twin Turbo "Ecoboost" 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines in the next year. What if they build a Mustang with this combination? This will be another power adder and I think the next debate should be " supercharger or twin turbochargers". In the land of "what if" Ford racing builds a Mustang Cobra Jet with a twin turbo V6. This harks back to the Buicks of the 1980's but the technology has come a long way. I am amazed at the "run what you brung races" where these turbo cars are showing up. Whether you like it or not, I think this will be the direction of future high performance cars including (ugh) the imports.

02-13-2009, 11:24 AM	#2
junior barns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541 Likes: 11 Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Next Debate. I agree! This is going to be the future. NHRA knows what these cars are capable of and I think this new mustang will be Fords one freeby! All others will be factored alot better from here forward! Just my opinion! ps I dont't think we will see alot of these anyway because the kids today wont go and sit for 4 days and get 2-3 passes before the race starts! No way will they put up with this Bull Sh** only suckers like us!!! Last edited by junior barns; 02-13-2009 at 01:25 PM. Reason: spelling

02-13-2009, 09:58 PM	#3
CycloneFE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Decatur Illinois Posts: 634 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Next Debate. FE, I think you are on to something regarding power adders. I sat in a Mercury convention in 1998 and they were introducing the new Cougars. They were trying to tell us the future was a FWD car with a simple power adder such as the Cougar with a supercharger, very little else. I thought they were smoking something, but now I think somebody may have been onto it. Too bad they dropped the Cougar. Later on I saw them introduce the Montego(again) and I told them it sounds great, just stick with it, well we know where that is too. Maybe Mercury is heading that direction. My point is you are not the only one seeing this.

02-13-2009, 11:49 PM	#4
goinbroke2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NS CANADA Posts: 888 Likes: 1,594 Liked 385 Times in 150 Posts	Re: Next Debate. Oh they're coming don't worry! The question is, how will they be factored. Also , how much is left? A 460 ford or 500 caddy from the early 70's has lots of room to improve, a maxed out v-6 won't have too much more room to go. Stocker tricks and more boost will give it 50-100hp at the most. A 460 built as a stocker will do lots better than it's 300hp rating. Regardless...The HP war might be coming back!! (weird to say in these economic times but hey, they're being built)!!

02-14-2009, 02:33 AM	#5
big blue galaxie Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 36 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Next Debate. Unless there is a rule on injector size and boost level, the forced induction cars can potentially do a lot better than 50-100hp, not to mention the torque and rpm increases that come with doing the stocker tricks to them. That Cobra Jet is a pulley and calibration change away from 600hp at the wheels or more, and with motor work and exhaust that may hit 700+. It's a 9 second car, and unless GM and Chrysler come up with something that can compensate for the Ford's extra valve area, supercharger and rpm capability, they are going to get smoked.

02-15-2009, 10:24 AM	#7
big blue galaxie Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 36 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Next Debate. Alright, barring a rule book and a proper quote, let's go with the ability to run any injector. With just injectors, fuel pump upgrade and exhaust, and the calibration work, and a pulley change, that's 700hp at the wheels. The streetcars are doing that now. With a dedicated build and high rpm valvetrain, more compression (these days running 9 to 1, 10 to 1 static with boost is normal with a modern chamber) because of the blueprinting, and an agressive tune on race fuel (or E85 if it's allowed since I think the car stock is flex fuel capable, could be wrong) it could hit 1000hp. Even if the pullies are policed, the extra rpm from "stocker" style cams will more than make up for it. Going thru the traps at 8000 plus, that blower will probably pumping 20 or more pounds of boost. Low 9's, maybe 8 second quartermile? And here's the funny thing, I am a Ford guy and I feel conflicted about letting a car like this loose in a "stock" style class where the vast majority of the cars are naturally aspirated. The bottom ends are strong enough from the factory to support 1200 rwhp. Heck, Helion put a twin turbo kit that integrates into the blower system for the 4.6 Cobra and 5.4 GT500's and made something like 1000-1200hp at the wheels; and it's totally streetable. Civilized until you give it gas and the world goes completely backwards. This car in the right hands can totally dominate the class, which just messes up the racing. It won't be close. The new Challenger will not keep up unless it can spin to 10000 rpms and live, and have a huge weight break, Chevy the same thing.

02-15-2009, 10:34 AM	#8
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Next Debate. THE CURE......Outlaw all supercharged and turbo charged engine combos OR have a seperate class/classes for them. Then its a dial in (Bracket racing). Problem cured !!!