2011 ahfs

[Craig Couris]

Let's address the A/SA & AA/SA indexes for a moment. The A index is 11.00 and the AA index is 10.60. Wouldn't it be much more fair to the older cars if the AA index was softened up to let's say 10.75? With the proposed AHFS, the blown cars basically get a free pass because there is no reason ever to go faster than a 9.61 but there isn't a carburetor car that can run that fast. We all know the blown cars can go much faster when and if needed.

Now, I put the weight in my car to run A/SA because there is no way I can run with a blown car. I can now go 9.90's so I now I must slow the car down just to make sure I do not hurt my combination. How can anyone say my car now needs hit with HP?

The AA index needs to be changed now.

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Craig Couris

Let's address the A/SA & AA/SA indexes for a moment. The A index is 11.00 and the AA index is 10.60. Wouldn't it be much more fair to the older cars if the AA index was softened up to let's say 10.75? With the proposed AHFS, the blown cars basically get a free pass because there is no reason ever to go faster than a 9.61 but there isn't a carburetor car that can run that fast. We all know the blown cars can go much faster when and if needed.

Now, I put the weight in my car to run A/SA because there is no way I can run with a blown car. I can now go 9.90's so I now I must slow the car down just to make sure I do not hurt my combination. How can anyone say my car now needs hit with HP?

The AA index needs to be changed now.

Craig, a carb car has run that fast. But I agree on the index. A .75 would make a lot more sense. It's like a 200 lb. difference between A and AA for most of the higher rated cars. The difference is more like two-two and half tenths, not four.

[Craig Couris]

Sean,

I stand corrected on the Camaro but you do see the absurdity of the AA/SA index and I appreciate that.

Craig

[Michael Beard]

Chad Rhodes - lots of good posts.

The new AHFS would have accelerated the newer cars, but a lot of older cars would get some adjustment also. I think more than most people would think. I don't have all of it in my computer at home, but there is a pattern of lots of older cars that steadily thrash all year that would get the semi annual adjustment where most of the adjustment for the newer cars is earned on instant adjustment.

Okay. Then they should get horsepower. It's got nothing to do with old cars vs new cars. It's just numbers.

Michael, it would take more than a bell curve to do what you want. Maybe a 'Gong" curve.

Mmm, no. And it doesn't have anything to do with what I "want". I don't have a "want". It's math. Do run completion on years of data so that we have a clear picture of what cars would've actually been running that were actively "protecting their index", and automatically adjust HP, up or down, based on analysis of those numbers and an arbitrary trigger. No "well, that should apply to Neons and not Camaros, or that should apply to Firebirds and not GTOs".... Numbers. Period. Faster than trigger, get HP. Slower than some min. trigger, get HP back. Factor EVERYBODY once now, then let everybody get back to racing for a good long while.

As far as the heads up racing, you know I am 300% for that, but I'm telling you, most Stock and Super Stock racers are not ready for a lot of heads up.

Alright, y'all gonna have to explain that one to me... Combining classes based on weight breaks as I proposed earlier in this thread wouldn't have people running heads-up every other round, just a little more often than they do now. Not to mention Class Eliminations would get REALLY cool! (and potentially, worth more than currently). Who is it that isn't ready for a handful of heads-up in a season, that may or may not happen? Bracket racers?

Look at SS/AH. Cost of doing that outran inflation by 2,676,438%, and most of the ultra fast can't run rounds any more.

Different animal. You've got SS/AH guys that race like they're Pro Stockers (albeit cooler!), and you've got SS/AH guys (in your own stables) that can and do win "regular" races. You're always going to have both kinds.

[K Stubbs]

I think a good idea would be to have at least a couple of races a year, maybe more, where stock and superstock can run just like comp eliminator, off index no breakout with a cic. And pre factor some of the cars that are way underfactored. This way the guys that want to strive to go faster can have a race to do it without the AHFS.

[Adger Smith]

Good idea about races without AHFS. At least make record runs exempt from AHFS. What are records supposed to represent? The guy that can save index or HP or the guy that can go the fastest?

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Good idea about races without AHFS. At least make record runs exempt from AHFS. What are records supposed to represent? The guy that can save index or HP or the guy that can go the fastest?

Kinda reminds me of PINKS All Out. In a best out of 3 final, one guy gets there first, but loses the round because he "ran too fast". I've heard they give these guys as much as .10 or .20 breakout to work with. If the guy makes one lap that's .20 quicker than what he got in the show with, and his opponent has *actually* been running his car all out the whole time... umm... isn't it kind of ridiculous to just DQ the one run that was .20 "too fast", and then line them up again thinking that the slower car has any real shot? The only challenge for the fast guy is figuring out how to cover his opponent just enough to hide his tremendous performance advantage (which had ALREADY been displayed!) .... Sound familiar?

They have non-AHFS races... they're called S/SS Combos... (and if I understand things right, haven't "Altitude" races been this way, for all intents and purposes?)

[Travis Miller]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Good idea about races without AHFS. At least make record runs exempt from AHFS. What are records supposed to represent? The guy that can save index or HP or the guy that can go the fastest?

Races without any AHFS limits happen all the time. They are usually called Combo races. Several Stock/SS associations and local tracks put them on across the country all year long. Anyone wanting to put on an independent Stock or S/S race can step up and promote one anytime they want.

At LODRS events record runs are a part of qualifying. Qualifying falls under the guidelines of the AHFS. National Opens are not qualified fields yet records can be set. But is it right for a car that is not factored correctly to set the record representing a class? The AHFS is all about factoring cars correctly shown by on track performance once they have been accepted to race.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)