Hemi Head Ruling - Page 16

jaythorne · 03-09-2013, 08:19 PM

Ok,after preaching the rule for the longest time I looked at some old rulebooks,an as David says there never was any mention of valve cover bolt holes. So I guess that what's allowed in heads now has been legal by the book for years. For some reason I always thought it was in the book. Guess that makes all the b,c, and d cares with vc bolt holes blown through illegal now. And since the rule never said anything about vc bolt holes in ss ,doesn't this effect Chevys too? Nobody never noticed that except for Barton? Oh I know it was one of those unwritten rules right?

Peter Ash · 03-09-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaythorne

Ok,after preaching the rule for the longest time I looked at some old rulebooks,an as David says there never was any mention of valve cover bolt holes. So I guess that what's allowed in heads now has been legal by the book for years. For some reason I always thought it was in the book. Guess that makes all the b,c, and d cares with vc bolt holes blown through illegal now. And since the rule never said anything about vc bolt holes in ss ,doesn't this effect Chevys too? Nobody never noticed that except for Barton? Oh I know it was one of those unwritten rules right?

Strange but?

My 2000 rule book states the same thing as my 2011 rule book

Stock - Intake side of the head may not be cut into any part of the valve cover bolt holes

Super Stock - Requirements and specifications for all Super Stock categories are the same for those as Stock with the following exceptions.

With no mention in the Super Stock section allowing cutting into the Valve cover bolt holes.

Stewart Way · 03-09-2013, 11:30 PM

Peter
Not fair. You actually know to look at Stock Section too.

David Barton · 03-09-2013, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ash

Strange but?

My 2000 rule book states the same thing as my 2011 rule book

Stock - Intake side of the head may not be cut into any part of the valve cover bolt holes

Super Stock - Requirements and specifications for all Super Stock categories are the same for those as Stock with the following exceptions.

With no mention in the Super Stock section allowing cutting into the Valve cover bolt holes.

If there is a section listed in Super Stock, it replaces whatever was said in the Stock rules. Anything that is a repeat rule is rewritten in the Super Stock section. And they left out the part about the valve cover bolt holes, end of story. Why would they write all that stuff about cylinder heads and leave out such an important rule, unless it was meant to be left out?

I'm sure if you asked every Hemi Super Stock guy out there whether or not their bolt holes were broken into, 95% of them would tell you yes. It's nothing new.

Peter Ash · 03-10-2013, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barton

If there is a section listed in Super Stock, it replaces whatever was said in the Stock rules. Anything that is a repeat rule is rewritten in the Super Stock section. And they left out the part about the valve cover bolt holes, end of story. Why would they write all that stuff about cylinder heads and leave out such an important rule, unless it was meant to be left out?

I'm sure if you asked every Hemi Super Stock guy out there whether or not their bolt holes were broken into, 95% of them would tell you yes. It's nothing new.

David

Whether or not 95% of the guys do it?

It is "THE RULE" HIGHLIGHTED on PAGE 1 SECTION 11 SUPERSTOCK

Right below the picture. First thing you can possibly read in the Superstock section.

Super Stock - Requirements and specifications for all Super Stock categories are the same for those as Stock with the following exceptions.

Absolutely NO mention anywhere of allowance to modify any VC bolt holes. But specifically mentioned in the stock rules as PROHIBITED ie., may not

hmmm, If it's been left out it must be one of those at least maybe possibly a 13 year oversite? Possibly longer if I recall my older rule books.

Cheers

Tom Meyer · 03-10-2013, 09:56 AM

I have no dog in this fight, but I have been racing in super stock since the mid eightys, before the ported heads deal came along. When they allowed port head deal came along some guys got crazy with rolling the heads over and getting into the valve cover bolt hole mostly small block chevys at the time, that is when the rule was put into place must of been mid 90s. I know if I show up in tech with my small block chevy head with it rolled over so far that there was no valve cover holes I would be DQ no questions asked. Then came the combustion camber rule guys got inventive with it some were dq for that, nhra had cutawys with them to see if your heads were legal. Every time people get caught cheating they start crying I spent all this time and money becuse I thought I could. And every time this happens it usely cost 99 percent of the rest of the racers more money to stay competive and you guys wonder why we lose racers every year. Just because you have taken the easy road to get your hp and now want to twist the rules to your advantage and then say but everybody else does it, does not make it right. Just remember you started this thread and you will be judged by your peers just some will not speech up. Tom

Spyphish · 03-10-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

Remember you started this thread and you will be juged by your pers just some will not speech up. Tom

Amen Brother Tom. They better bring plenty of gaskets to Belle Rose!

Ego over ethics.

Stewart Way · 03-10-2013, 02:02 PM

David
You say that "Anything that is a repeat rule is rewritten in the Super Stock section". That is not true. In Stock is says that the leading and trailing edge of wheel opening can be trimmed. It is not rewritten in SS section. There are several rules that carry over fron S to SS that are not rewritten in SS and there are several rules from S that are rewritten in SS word for word. Also some that are changed. This is where the confision may come from. There is no carb section in SS but that doesnt mean we have no rules. It means we follow the S rules. There are others but the point is if not CHANGED for SS it is as written in S. My examples came from the 2012 rulebook but I think 2013 is the same. The problem is that there is no set pattern to what NHRA rewrites in the SS section and what they don't. The Cyl Head section is the perfect example. They rewrite part but not all of the section. But anything that is allowed in SS and not in S is written out. Nowhere does it say in the SS section that you can cut into the VC bolt holes so since there is no change to the S section rule on that, as Peter pointed out, the S rule applies.
The fact that NHRA Tech has allowed it to get where it has does not change the rule book and the intent, only what is enforced.

Spyphish · 03-12-2013, 02:15 PM

Well, I just recieved a clarification on the external mod rule from NHRA. I was trying to schedule my head inspection at Belle Rose as per my letter after Indy. External mods are now approved for AH ie the whole sentence "excepts" AH. Spacers are fine. Heck, lug nuts cool too.

So I am Happy Gilmore apologizing to Chubbs (Two Scoop)

"I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good-looking. I'm not attractive." And Two Scoop goes

"All right all right, as long as you're willing to admit all that."

I am over it all, just got B-slapped for the last three years. Now let's just grind on. Hemi TARP program.

Dwight Southerland · 03-12-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyphish

Hemi TARP program.

Break over laughing .

03-09-2013, 08:19 PM	#151
jaythorne Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Likes: 4 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling Ok,after preaching the rule for the longest time I looked at some old rulebooks,an as David says there never was any mention of valve cover bolt holes. So I guess that what's allowed in heads now has been legal by the book for years. For some reason I always thought it was in the book. Guess that makes all the b,c, and d cares with vc bolt holes blown through illegal now. And since the rule never said anything about vc bolt holes in ss ,doesn't this effect Chevys too? Nobody never noticed that except for Barton? Oh I know it was one of those unwritten rules right?

03-09-2013, 11:30 PM	#153
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling Peter Not fair. You actually know to look at Stock Section too. __________________ Stewart Way 2424 SS

03-10-2013, 09:56 AM	#156
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 936 Likes: 77 Liked 351 Times in 120 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling I have no dog in this fight, but I have been racing in super stock since the mid eightys, before the ported heads deal came along. When they allowed port head deal came along some guys got crazy with rolling the heads over and getting into the valve cover bolt hole mostly small block chevys at the time, that is when the rule was put into place must of been mid 90s. I know if I show up in tech with my small block chevy head with it rolled over so far that there was no valve cover holes I would be DQ no questions asked. Then came the combustion camber rule guys got inventive with it some were dq for that, nhra had cutawys with them to see if your heads were legal. Every time people get caught cheating they start crying I spent all this time and money becuse I thought I could. And every time this happens it usely cost 99 percent of the rest of the racers more money to stay competive and you guys wonder why we lose racers every year. Just because you have taken the easy road to get your hp and now want to twist the rules to your advantage and then say but everybody else does it, does not make it right. Just remember you started this thread and you will be judged by your peers just some will not speech up. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ??? Last edited by Tom Meyer; 03-10-2013 at 08:34 PM. Reason: my spelling sucks ken should have spell check

03-10-2013, 02:02 PM	#158
Stewart Way Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 476 Likes: 20 Liked 70 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling David You say that "Anything that is a repeat rule is rewritten in the Super Stock section". That is not true. In Stock is says that the leading and trailing edge of wheel opening can be trimmed. It is not rewritten in SS section. There are several rules that carry over fron S to SS that are not rewritten in SS and there are several rules from S that are rewritten in SS word for word. Also some that are changed. This is where the confision may come from. There is no carb section in SS but that doesnt mean we have no rules. It means we follow the S rules. There are others but the point is if not CHANGED for SS it is as written in S. My examples came from the 2012 rulebook but I think 2013 is the same. The problem is that there is no set pattern to what NHRA rewrites in the SS section and what they don't. The Cyl Head section is the perfect example. They rewrite part but not all of the section. But anything that is allowed in SS and not in S is written out. Nowhere does it say in the SS section that you can cut into the VC bolt holes so since there is no change to the S section rule on that, as Peter pointed out, the S rule applies. The fact that NHRA Tech has allowed it to get where it has does not change the rule book and the intent, only what is enforced. __________________ Stewart Way 2424 SS

03-12-2013, 02:15 PM	#159
Spyphish Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 846 Likes: 16 Liked 679 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Hemi Head Ruling Well, I just recieved a clarification on the external mod rule from NHRA. I was trying to schedule my head inspection at Belle Rose as per my letter after Indy. External mods are now approved for AH ie the whole sentence "excepts" AH. Spacers are fine. Heck, lug nuts cool too. So I am Happy Gilmore apologizing to Chubbs (Two Scoop) "I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good-looking. I'm not attractive." And Two Scoop goes "All right all right, as long as you're willing to admit all that." I am over it all, just got B-slapped for the last three years. Now let's just grind on. Hemi TARP program.