Ford 390 FE help
 

I need a little help with a 390 I'm working on. It had trouble running with less then 50deg total timing so I put a Deg wheel on it with a piston stop and sure enough it was 8 deg wrong. While I was there I pulled the timing chain cover to make sure the cam was installed correctly and it was but it had a stardard timing chain on it. Now I'm installing a roller chain, my problem is the cam dowel was sticking out of the fuel Pp eccentric about .250 which looked wrong and when I took the cam gear off the dowel came out with it. My problem is it appears that another pin may be at the bottom of the dowel hole (which is only .325 deep). My question is can the cam dowel pin be pushed back through the front of the cam on FE engines. Sorry for being so long. Thanks for your help Robbie

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Ford used 2 different fuel pump eccentrics on the 63 1/2 and newer FEs, the older engines used a thick 1 piece eccentric, which used a long dowel pin in the cam. The pin should stick close to flush in the eccentric, the cam bolt washer holds it in place. Later FEs (not sure exactly when), used a 2 piece eccentric, with one thin inner piece, with a slightly larger outer ring that slips over the inner. (I am guessing it was a friction reducing modification). With the 2 piece eccentric, a shorter dowel pin is used, as the inner eccentric has a small tab that fits into the dowel hole of the cam gear, so the pin needs to be short enough to allow this tab to fit inside the hole, and allow the inner eccentric to sit flush against the cam gear. `The cam dowel hole in the camshaft does not go all the way thru, so if there is something jammed in there, you wont be able to push it farther in, assuming it is bottomed out. I suppose you could shorten the pin you have, but i would be concerned if .325 is a safe enough depth for the pin to fit inside the cam.
Also, if the old timing set was origional, the backside of the cam gear is flat, with the thick C shaped washer that is a spacer, that fits inside the cam retainer thrust plate. Every aftermarket cam gear I have ever seen has a built in step on the backside, so DO NOT reinstall the C washer. To do so would cause the cam gear to not be parallel with the crank gear.
As for your timing marks being off, are you using an ATI Damper. I have had a couple of these that were off by 7 or 8 degrees with the OE timing pointer. If it is a OE Ford balancer, there is a possibility that the outer ring has slipped on the hub. do you have another balancer you can compare with.

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Rory thanks for ther reply. The balancer is stock and in ok shape the dowel was my concern. I didn't know if it went thru the cam or not on a FE. It looks like I'll be replacing the cam, would you reuse the lifter? Thanks again Robbie

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

If you're changing the cam you HAVE to use new lifters, have you checked into having the old cam redrilled and install the dowel 180 deg. off? It's common practice to double dowel Ford cams when there is high spring pressures, so you should be able to re-use the cam you have now, just don't forget to keep the lifters in order.

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Thanks for the reply Phil. Some of the mystery has been solved. The cam dowel hole had a cut off bolt in it to make the dowel long enough to contact the eccentric (it wasn't out of the eccentric .250 like I thought). I did keep the lifters in order but I thank I'm going to put a hydraulic cam in it (its a street car). Thanks Rory and Phil for the help

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

I'm not a big fan of Hydro cams but they do make some good hydro rollers nowaways. I'd suggest contacting this guy for some help in choosing what you need. He's also got a great book out.

survivalmotorsports.com

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Robbie, if the obstruction is indeed a cut down bolt, in the cam dowel hole, how about trying to knock it out by removing the camshaft, and tapping it nose down against a bench or other hard surface. If that won`t remove it, you could always try drilling it out, at least enough to get a safe amount of pin engagement. It sounds like the dowel pin in your cam was the shorter 2 piece eccentric version, being used with a 1 piece eccentric.

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

The cut off bolt came out when I took the cam out. The cam dowel hole is .640 deep now I thought the .325 wasn't deep enough. The only problem now is the dowel hole has a small amount of movemment in it. Like I said it's a street car and he doesn't need the valve train noise. Thanks again for the help Robbie

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

You can save a cam with a broken dowel pin or bolt by have them burnt out called eloxing not sure spelling is correct not cheap and it will not change the size of the hole. I have had a lot of this done in the past. Hand a broken tap removed form a small block Ford oil galley.

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Robbie,
The dowel pin needs to be snug in the cam. This is important in Fords due to the bolt being in the center of the cam. If it had three bolts off center like a Cheby it would not be as important. If the dowel is loose it will allow the timing gear to move enough to loosen the bolt. When I was building engines I used two dowels in most applications although this was mostly 429/460 style engines.
regards

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Technically .325 is deep enough pin is .312 dia. it was deeper than the dia.
The dowel pin does'nt keep gear from moving. The bolt/washer clamp the gear and cam together if dowel breaks something else is wrong,the dowel is only to line gear and cam up not to keep from rotating .Cloyes told me that and I did'nt think that was right,so I checked w/Tim @ bullet/ultradyne and he said that was right.
So then I started to think about it alot of 4.6 dohc fords don't have anything in keyways of gears that run between cams,LS1, LT-1 and lot of other engines don't have keyways&keys for the balancers(dampners)so then it started to seem more correct,then I got to thinking how does dbl. key crank on blown engine work?
You know the tiny woodruff key could'nt keep the spider from turning on the cam adapter on Jesel belt but the clamping pressure/taper keeps them from rotating

Don't try to drill broken pin completely out, drill and tap hole in the pin then use a bolt& nut w/ a spacer that your pin will fit inside of,and tighten nut against spacer to pull broken pin out. You can also do this on broken pressed in rocker stud,etc.

To make long story short make sure your dowel is'nt holding anything from sitting flat,that washer,bolt etc are all stong enough and torqued enough.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Thanks to all for the replys and the great info. I just need to get the correct lenght dowel and put in back together. Thanks again Robbie

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Robbie,

If we can help let us know.

monymkrssla@aol.com

In case you have to change cams n lifters.

Tony

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

Thanks Tony, I think I've got it now. Not sure why the balancer/pointer where off 8degs (balancer problem?) but I redrilled the mounting holes for the pointer and its good now. How's your dad doing? Robbie

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

I suspect the balancer is off. We have used a timing tape to fix that on ocassion. They are not expensive an we keep em on the shelf. Sometimes balanacers are mis marked, and others the pointer is tweaked.

Dad is doing pretty decent all things considered. Now its all about the therapy.

Re: Ford 390 FE help
 

If it is a stock Ford unit it very common for the outer ring to slip, there is a very good company called Damper Dudes in Calif that rebuilds stock units.