Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

2010 NHRA rulebook, page 128, TRANSMISSION, Manual

"Clutchless transmission prohibited. Clutch must be used to change gears in a conventional manner."

Same on page 139 for Modified Stock and page 146 for Modified.

Is a clutchless allowed in S/S or not?????????

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=21363
maybe

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

2010 NHRA rulebook, page 128, TRANSMISSION, Manual

"Clutchless transmission prohibited. Clutch must be used to change gears in a conventional manner."

Jeeze- how can it be made any more clear? What part of "Clutchless transmission prohibited." don't you understand?

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

[QUOTE=Bill Harris;
Jeeze- how can it be made any more clear? What part of "Clutchless transmission prohibited." don't you understand?[/QUOTE]

The part where the tech department told racers at Vegas that a clutchless transmission was going to be legal in SS for 2010.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Yeah, right

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Well, what happens in Vegas-stays in Vegas! :cool: Maybe the tech guys were confused and when they said SS, they meant Super Street...LOL :rolleyes: I know my left leg will continue to get plenty of exercise slamming the clutch pedal!;)

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Real men drive stick

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

If they are going to change the rule it will appear in the rules amendments at the end of December.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

This is just about (but not quite) the stupidest thread I have seen on this site in a while.

What some people won't do to stur up a turd.....

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Go keen Go...Luke

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Well said, Mike!!! How have you been? Miss the Top Stock days!!!

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

So what do the S/S stick racers do before Pomona? Refresh their clutch assisted 4-speed and hope the the rule is not changed at the end of December? Or do they buy a clutchless and do some testing, just in case?

Stupid thread? This thread was started to try and get a definite answer since the next season is fast approaching. Some racers do plan ahead!

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

If you want an "definite answer" to a question like that, why would you ask the people on this forum? The NHRA isn't a democracy run by the folks in the forum, its a autocratic organization that sets the rules that we have to go by. The rules are in the rulebook. The "tech department" guys at a race don't set the rules either, they enforce the rules that are in the rulebook.

If you really wanted to challenge the rule that is published in the rulebook, you should ask the guy who makes the rules, the NHRA tech director.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

The rules for Super Stock and Stock are made by the commitee of five, not the national tech director, these do not include safety rules.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Why would you change it? Do you have a better chance winning with a clutchess over a clutch assisted. If the rules change you can buy it later.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

We were told the clutchless trans will not be legal by a couple of tech officials...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Steve / Horace great job with the old FE motor - quite an accomplishment, can't beat old age and treachery - hey Horace.

I use my clutch pedal for economic reasons - keeps the run interesting as well

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Chutchless trannys are for people who can not drive a regular 4 speed.....lol. Kind of like the air/elec. shifters for automatics in the cars who use these devices.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Amen Terry.....

Like I said, the stupidest post I have seen here in quite a while!

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Super Sport answered his own question, before he even asked it.

2010 NHRA rulebook, page 128, TRANSMISSION, Manual

"Clutchless transmission prohibited. Clutch must be used to change gears in a conventional manner."

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Doe's anyone know who the FIVE are????
Danny
Bob Lang?
Please fill in the blanks!
Thanks

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

It is now six people: Dave Mohn, Bill Holt, Bob Blackwell, Bruce Bachelder, Bob Lang and the committee chairman Pat Cvengros. This information can be found on the NHRA site under Competition, Rules Committee

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

I dont really get what is stupid about this thread. Bruce told me more than once that it was a done deal. He said "clutchless prohibited" was going to be deleted, whis meant that it was allowed, than he told me the were going to try to change the line to "clutchless permitted". This conversation happened within the last month.

I was also told that the S/SS comittee consisted of Bruce an Danny, thats it. Another Tech guy told me that.

cw

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

:mad: Well heck, maybe it can be revised to "clutch cars" prohibited and not even have a manual transmission/clutch, flywheel, flywheel shield rule in section 6 of the NHRA bible and all the manual transmission cars will have have no choice other than to run a slush pump, since hardly anyone (not everyone) wants to race a stick car like it is intended to be driven in Super Stock, as well as Stock Eliminator. :rolleyes:

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

I don,t think anyone has said you will have to run clutchless. Pretty sure you can still run a column shift.
" I used to be disgusted, now i'm just amused" Elvis C.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Yeah,

I also heard they were going to allow neutral stars for automatics but the starter was going to be in the tower.

Rules are rules until you see changes in writing.

"Much ado about nothing"

JimR

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

i agree with x-techman and superstock dodge, all a clutchless is is an over-priced auto for people too cordinationally challenged to clutch and shift at the same time. i think they should install a little camera on the roll cage and make sure everyone clutches when they shift. worked at are local strip. we have always clutched and shifted in a conventional manor at all strips where cluthless is prohibited. in testing, running a true cluthless trans we picked up .09. i have seen uncordinated people pick up as much as .25 with true clutchless. i have seen superstock dodge run at k.c. and he does use the clutch as we did. he did a damn good job also. hey, we were the cobalt parked next to you guys.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

This issue was brought up for a vote by the NHRA S/SS committee at Pomona and did not pass. The rule will be inforced as written for now is what I was told.


Thanks
Mike Crutchfield
D2 SRAC Member

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

How many people that are talking about clutchless trans being so much easier to drive have ever drove one or even know how they operate? We are talking about Jerico,G-force and Liberty right, if you are using manual shifter (no air etc.) the clutchless is no easier to drive than the clutch versions,if anything the clutchless is slightly harder due to not being able to keep in gear if off throttle or if you blow tires off.You think shifting
without clutch came about since Jericos or G-forces,or anyother face plate trans,people shifted old crashboxes(synchronizers took out every other dog took off gear)and pro
shifted gears without the clutch,just can't do it many times. face plates made it to where
you can do it for 100's of passes.
Anybody that is good in a stick car will tell you shifting is the easy part with or without
clutch or clutchless doesn't matter.
The only ''helpers'' I like and use are high side rev limiter and line loc switch released
with clutch and can do without if want to.
People that worry about losing to sticks are the same ones that would worry about
a quadrapalegic having a advantage in a fist fight.
I would be ashamed to have a RPM activated shifter to make one gear change.
Mike Taylor3601

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Thanks Randy :cool: You know where i am coming from on this subject...;) The new motor is coming along good, still alot to do-i hope it's a long winter :rolleyes: lol

Sean

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Super Stock Dodge I like your location sounds like my kinda town.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Very well said

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

i am not knocking anyone, but take the rule out or enforce it (must be shifted in a conventional manner) is what i am saying. and i have drove both and for me a true clutchless is way smoother than conventional. the car calms down tremendously when you are not unloading the chassis. the way most people are shifting manuals they just as well allow true clutchless, it would be less expensive in the long run. after testing one i think i could learn to like that.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

I was told there is no advantage of running a true "clutchless" trans compared to clutch (i.e. GForce GF-4R or Jerico DR4). The primary advantages with the DR4 over a T-5 is durability and quicker shift action. I learned to "speedshift" a stick long before switching to a Jerico. And while you can shift the DR4 without kicking the clutch, it's usually at the expense of "out of power band" shift points or a fully adjustable clutch like Soft-loc or Advanced is used.

I have a friend who purchased an ex Larry Morgan Stratus complete with power train (Liberty) which turned out to be a nightmare. He found that clutch setup was very critical..and difficult to master. It made the difference between tire shake or destroying clutch discs @ $400 per set. Tire shake ended up equating to chipped gears @ $500 per repair. Shift points also played a part in keeping it in one piece. The first 2 outings costed $1200 with only 5 passes. So the Liberty went bye-bye in favor of an automatic.

Lenco is perhaps the easiest to operate...but it's a power robber especially with lower HP engines, requires many adjustments, and stupid expensive.

In the end clutchless transmissions (might) offer a couple hundredths, but at a ridiculous cost.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

i think every combination differs. i have personally not seen anyone break a g-force cluthless at are local track, and they all picked up when changing from a trans that is clutched between gears and a true clutchless. we only know what it did for us. not changing any thing in the clutch from one set-up to the other we picked up .09 on second pass, and according to the computer we missed the shift points by a few hundred rpm. we just ran a single disk soft lok.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

I agree with you Randy. Gary I wouldn't use anything but Mc Leod or Advanced or same as.If you run anything other than sintered iron disc and adjustable pressure style pressure plate you'll most likely regret it. Years ago Red Roberts that used own McLeod convinced me to try his setup and that was best decision I ever made,what sold me on it was he asked if I ever noticed a time when my reaction times were more consistent ,I said sure the last two-three weeks before my disc wears out I would kill tree all night (without going
red), Red said that's what I'm talking about see what happens when you lower pressure. Soft Loc style setup cost to start with but are well worth the price they'll run longer than any other style setup without destroying driveline.
Gary your buddy's pro stock deal that's a whole different deal when you get in those type cars you better know what you're up against there is a hardly no room for error.I've got alot of clutch experience I could probaly get it figured out but I'm sure I would junk a pile of parts in the process.Pro Stock-Comp style clutch is high maintance &high skill level.
What Iv'e seen is clutch trans shifted without clutch .07-.08 quicker and just estimating clutchless trans would probaly be worth about another .05 or so.only difference is clutchless in always pulling where clutch type is in neutral split second on gear changes if cars violent on gear changes using clutch not using clutch is going help more because
car will make smoother pass.
Mike Taylor3601

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

If Ronnie Sox and Herb McCandless could shift the way they did in the '70's with virtually stock 883's and a clutch why change?

Practice, practice, practice!

JimR

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

better inform warren johnson, ken blacks bunch, and jegs. they are spending alot of money on nothing when purchasing high priced cutchless units when an m-22 muncie is just as quick. would save them a ton of money. if clutching the car was as quick, everyone not clutching would start doing it to save on break downs. i know it is harder on parts to pull a clutch assisted trans in and out than it is a true clutchless.

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

Because the new breed cant drive a nail with a hammer ! LOL

Re: Clutchless tranny in S/S?
 

they did not run 8.20s over 150mph