Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Can anybody tell me if they have ran into this ?

I am running small block chev injected with a msd dist. and a Accel management system
Car starts very hard like to much timing.......I talked to Accel they said there system does not work right with the msd dist, I need a phase rotor ( or there distributor) as it is trying to start on 8 rather than cyl 1, I am thinking I can retard the timing back on start up with there dfi system, they tell me it won`t do that

Talk to MSD on the phase rotor, they tell me of a timing retarder they have for start up.......so now I am thinking that is the way to go

Just add when it starts runs good, timing on the laptop shows 32............

Any help appreciated
Thanks

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Rory,
Do you have the MSD mechanical advance distributor ?

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hi Bob
Yes it is 85551 pro billet mech adv.
So it is locked in and then nearest I can tell the dfi throws 20-32 (being 50 -64) at it until the car fires up, then it goes to 32
Thanks

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

You need to take some of the timing out of the Start Up Term part of the Accel

You could most likely set it to zero and it will still start fine, you will have to try different settings and see what your motor likes

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Thanks for the replys


I tried adjusting the Accel to make it work, but to no avail, and I did try it at 0, and talked to them they said no, I was kind of amazed with the price of these things and everything they can do, that it won`t retard timing on start up, but I guess it is designed for there distributor, and not MSD`s.



Hey Bob
If you don`t mind I will give you a ring

When I talked to Accel they said it would work with a adjustable phase rotor, when I talked to MSD they suggested there timing retarder for start up

Thanks

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Do you have a Sportsman or Pro key?

The Accel and Msd will work together, they work together in my small block. Just a guess, it's getting timing from one of the timing tables, usually the Start Up Term table, go over them carefully.

This is a Gen7 system?

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

If this is a Gen7 system, click the Ignition tab, go to Start Up Term. Under this table you can Add Advance or Retard up to 32 degrees either way. I believe you will need a Sportsman Key to get to this table, if not a Sportsman I know a Pro Key will get you there

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hey
Thanks again for replies
Sorry Bob didn`t get a chance to call today, and not sure what time it is there now, so I will wait until tomorrow


OK, csjta

Maybe we are getting somewhere, it is a Gen 7+
We were trying to access other tables and we could not, ....I am not famailiar with the sportsman or pro key ............Is that something I can use to access these tables ???

We figured we could change this thing if we could access what we needed to, but in talking to Accel, they were not that much help, They told me that I could only retard once it was running, not when it was trying to start

Thanks Much !!!

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Accel themselves are usually no help at all, atleast on the occasions I have spoke with them.

Accel sells "Keys" with there Gen7 systems. There are 2 keys, a Sportsman key and a Pro key. With these keys you get access to all of the functions that the Accel will perform, without the keys, you are limited to what you can change. The Pro key opens all tables, the Sportsman opens most tables, but not all. You will have to purchase a key from the dealer you bought your system from or from an any Accel dealer. The key plugs into your USB port on your PC or Laptop.

Hope this helps, ask away if you have more questions I will try to help

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hi

Hey csjta................Thanks much for the info, I went through the old box and found I do have a sportsman key............unreal I can`t believe, these guys at Accel don`t even mention this.
I will contact one of our warehouses and see if I can get my hands on a pro key, I want to be able to do as much with thing as possible.

I sure appreciate your input on this,.......ya know..... no where in there manual did I see anything about this either, unreal

Just checking it out I might need a different cable or an adapter....I will do some searching


Thanks again

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Glad to hear you have the Sportsman key

The key plugs into the USB port on your Laptop or PC that is connected to the car. That's all there is to it, once you have the key plugged into the USB port with the Laptop/PC connected to your car you should be able to view more tables of the Accel DFI

The Pro key will let you view and change all the tables in the Accel

The Sportsman key will let you view and change most of the tables in the Accel, but not all

You could start with the Sportman key and see how it goes before spending more money for the Pro key

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hey Csjta

OK, next problem never seems to simple

The cord coming from my accel unit, the end that would plug into my lap top is a 9 pin........the sportsman key is a 25 pin..........I have a place on my laptop that I can plug the 25 pin key into....but can I use a 9 pin to 25 pin adapter................I went and picked one up, but I have not plugged it in yet wanted to see what your thoughts were on this ?

So why a 9 pin cord and a 25 pin key ?.....

Thanks much again for the help

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

The "Key" just plugs into your USB port on the laptop, that's all it does. Just insert into the usb port.

The cable will plug into the 9 pin port on your laptop.

Do you have a 9 pin port?

Do you have a USB port?

Just looked at Accels website, looks like they make 2 types of keys, a USB type key and a Parallel port type key

I have dealt with the USB type, not sure how to hook up the Parallel port type, you could allways try the 25 to 9 pin adapter and see if it works, I wouldn't think it would hurt anything

Does your key have a part number on it?

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hi

Part number on the key is a 77002su

Ya I had a look on the Accel site too

I am using a older laptop so it has a 9 pin connection and a 25 pin connection

Yes I think I will just try plugging it in with the adapter and see what it does

Thanks for all your input it is much appreciated, I have not ran one of these systems before and it is a learning curve

Thanks Again

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hey csjta

OK I tried adapter no luck

Then I put the cable into the 9 port and left the key in the 25 port....And YES now I can access the tables for ignition, start up, and RPM

So currently it is set up at 15 degrees in the Accel.......and the RPM is at 360
So it would appear to me in crank mode it is giving it like 47 degrees total counting say 32 in the distributor..........does that sound right to you ?

So I was thinking of dropping the timing down to 0 degrees and bumping up the RPM up to about 550 or 600 scale only goes to 600............does any of that sound right to you ?

On the timing graph it looks like it bases it off of engine temp, so I am not sure on the graph how long to leave it at 0 before it scales up ?............is that just a trial and error thing.......I would think as soon as it starts it comes off this scale and goes to other settings

Thanks again for all your help

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Good deal, glad you got it to work

The Start Up Term timing table is based off engine temp

I would set it to 0 degrees all the way across the table to start with and try it, makes adjustments as necessary

Remember you have your intial timing already there, so anything you add or subtract in this table adds or subtracts to the intial timing during cranking

As far as the rpm table I would just leave it set to where Accel has it for now

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hi csjta

There is one box there that show the base timing it is at about 20.5 degrees does that need to be changed ? or should that be left and just deal with the graph ?

Thanks much again

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Hi csjta

No I tried flat lineing at zero didn`t not seem to help

Then I took it well into the negatives, spun over easier, but would not light
Thanks

Re: Msd Dist/with Accel Dfi ??
 

Yea you will have to play with the settings in that table to see what timing your motor likes

Also the very first timing table in the Base Advance you can play with that and see if that helps any, I thinks it's the 200 rpm table