1969 Camaros

Billy Nees · 01-28-2020, 05:34 PM

NHRA just changed the shipping weights? Interesting!

Tim H · 01-28-2020, 06:45 PM

The NHRA Technical Department recently made changes to the Class Guide, due to clerical errors as follows.
Chev Camaro corrected shipping weights 1969

Mopar 426 415-425 corrected steel/aluminum horsepower 63

Ed Wright · 01-28-2020, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

NHRA just changed the shipping weights? Interesting!

How about all the 1969 hp factors? LOL

JeremyDuncan · 01-28-2020, 09:25 PM

Jeremy,

After consulting with Wesley the shipping weights have been corrected for all 1969 Camaros, below is his reasoning.

Response from Wesley after an examination of AMA documentation & NHRA class guide.

The short answer to your 1st question “shouldn’t the shipping weights for the 350 255 and 350 300 be the same?” is YES.

The answer to your 2nd question “what’s the correct shipping weight?” will be addressed in the following. The short answer is 3142 for the Cp & 3392 for the Conv.

Source documents are as follows:

AMA Camaro specifications page 75 & page 99 dated 11.1.68 from NHRA files

AMA Camaro specifications page 50 & page 74 dated 11.1.68 from NHRA files

AMA Camaro specifications page 177 & page 204 dated 2.14.69 from NHRA files

AMA Camaro specifications page 55 from GM Heritage files for 69 Camaro

What I did is take the AMA information and double checked all the engine combinations in the 69 Camaro. Not only was the 350/255 incorrect, in addition the 350/250 was also incorrect. They were both listed at 3126 #’s for the Cp & 3375 #’s for the Conv. The correct shipping weight for the Cp is 3142 #’s & 3392 #’s for the Conv. As you can see when you compare the current 69 Camaro class guide sheet with the one that’s attached to reflect the correct per AMA specs shipping weight there were a few that changed by 2 or 3 pounds. This was due to rounding errors that had been in the class guide for years.

One of the keys to understanding how & why the class was set up in the manner it was is to know that NHRA instituted and to this day is followed that shipping weights would be used to determine a Power to Weight factor.

These definitions from GM AMA forms are:

Curb weight is defined as “weight of empty vehicle ready to drive. Shipping weight plus the weight of gasoline and water.”

Shipping weight is defined as “ weight of basic vehicle with regular equipment and grease and oil. Weight of gasoline and water not included”.

An examination of the AMA forms for the 1969 Camaro shows 79#’s was used as the difference between the listed curb weights & the shipping weight.

Another key found on the AMA specification sheets listed under the heading “Accessories & Equipment Differential Weights” is understanding the class guide makes a separate column or row only when a weight adder is greater than 50 #’s.

If the weights for accessories and equipment is 50#’s or less there is not a separate column or row made in the class guide. This would account for no separate columns or rows shown for the RS & SS options & other option packages that did not have a differential weight greater than 50 #’s.

An example of this as found on page 74 on the 69 Chevrolet file that is attached would be the differential weight of a Turbo Hydra-Matic Trans is listed at +57#’s. Therefore since the Turbo Hydra-Matic Trans is listed at 57 #’s adder that’s why there are different shipping wts for manual & auto trans in the 396 & above.

The method of computing the correct shipping weight for the different body styles & the different engine/transmission combinations starts with identifying the BASE 6 cylinder engine and the BASE 8 cylinder engine.

Once the BASE engines are identified it is a matter of applying the correct adder for different engines/transmission options.

With that stated it must be established what the BASE 6 cylinder engine and the BASE 8 cylinder engine is and their respective shipping weights.

The base 6 cylinder engine is the 230/140.

The base 8 cylinder engine is the 327/210.

The 6 cyl 230/140 BASE Cp curb wt is 3005 – therefore the BASE Shipping WT is 2926.

The 6 cyl 230/140 BASE Conv curb wt is 3255 – therefore the BASE Shipping WT is 3176.

The 8 cyl 327/210 BASE Cp curb wt is 3135 – therefore the BASE Shipping Wt is 3056.

The 8 cyl 327/210 BASE Conv curb wt is 3385 – therefore the BASE Shipping WT is 3306.

Now the adders come into play to find the correct shipping wts for the different engine combinations. The weight adders (or subtractions) are applied to the base shipping weights to determine the correct shipping weight for a specific body style & engine/trans combination.

Base-------------230/140 engine

L22---- +17#’s 250/155 engine

Std----- -16#’s 307/200 engine

Base ----------- 302/290 engine

Base ----------- 327/210 engine

LM1 --- +86#’s 350/255 engine

L48 ---- +86#’s 350/300 engine

L35 --- +249#’s 396/325 engine

L34 --- +309#’s 396/350 engine

L78 --- +281#’s 396/375 engine with cast iron heads

L79 --- +210#’s 396/375 engine with al heads

L72 --- +311#’s 427/425 engine

ZL1 --- + 68#’s 427/430 engine

400 Turbo Trans--- 57#’s

This has been a through explanation of how the class guide is established. Hopefully this answers your specific questions with the reasons behind the answers. I’ll be glad to help explain this further if necessary.

Wesley

Show quoted text

GUMP · 01-28-2020, 10:34 PM

What impact does all this have?

01-28-2020, 05:34 PM	#1
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,223 Likes: 3,103 Liked 6,791 Times in 1,524 Posts	1969 Camaros NHRA just changed the shipping weights? Interesting! __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS World's greatest Under-Achiever!

01-28-2020, 06:45 PM	#2
Tim H VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,010 Likes: 898 Liked 430 Times in 142 Posts	Re: 1969 Camaros The NHRA Technical Department recently made changes to the Class Guide, due to clerical errors as follows. Chev Camaro corrected shipping weights 1969 Mopar 426 415-425 corrected steel/aluminum horsepower 63

01-28-2020, 09:25 PM	#4
JeremyDuncan Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 254 Likes: 925 Liked 280 Times in 69 Posts	Re: 1969 Camaros Jeremy, After consulting with Wesley the shipping weights have been corrected for all 1969 Camaros, below is his reasoning. Response from Wesley after an examination of AMA documentation & NHRA class guide. The short answer to your 1st question “shouldn’t the shipping weights for the 350 255 and 350 300 be the same?” is YES. The answer to your 2nd question “what’s the correct shipping weight?” will be addressed in the following. The short answer is 3142 for the Cp & 3392 for the Conv. Source documents are as follows: AMA Camaro specifications page 75 & page 99 dated 11.1.68 from NHRA files AMA Camaro specifications page 50 & page 74 dated 11.1.68 from NHRA files AMA Camaro specifications page 177 & page 204 dated 2.14.69 from NHRA files AMA Camaro specifications page 55 from GM Heritage files for 69 Camaro What I did is take the AMA information and double checked all the engine combinations in the 69 Camaro. Not only was the 350/255 incorrect, in addition the 350/250 was also incorrect. They were both listed at 3126 #’s for the Cp & 3375 #’s for the Conv. The correct shipping weight for the Cp is 3142 #’s & 3392 #’s for the Conv. As you can see when you compare the current 69 Camaro class guide sheet with the one that’s attached to reflect the correct per AMA specs shipping weight there were a few that changed by 2 or 3 pounds. This was due to rounding errors that had been in the class guide for years. One of the keys to understanding how & why the class was set up in the manner it was is to know that NHRA instituted and to this day is followed that shipping weights would be used to determine a Power to Weight factor. These definitions from GM AMA forms are: Curb weight is defined as “weight of empty vehicle ready to drive. Shipping weight plus the weight of gasoline and water.” Shipping weight is defined as “ weight of basic vehicle with regular equipment and grease and oil. Weight of gasoline and water not included”. An examination of the AMA forms for the 1969 Camaro shows 79#’s was used as the difference between the listed curb weights & the shipping weight. Another key found on the AMA specification sheets listed under the heading “Accessories & Equipment Differential Weights” is understanding the class guide makes a separate column or row only when a weight adder is greater than 50 #’s. If the weights for accessories and equipment is 50#’s or less there is not a separate column or row made in the class guide. This would account for no separate columns or rows shown for the RS & SS options & other option packages that did not have a differential weight greater than 50 #’s. An example of this as found on page 74 on the 69 Chevrolet file that is attached would be the differential weight of a Turbo Hydra-Matic Trans is listed at +57#’s. Therefore since the Turbo Hydra-Matic Trans is listed at 57 #’s adder that’s why there are different shipping wts for manual & auto trans in the 396 & above. The method of computing the correct shipping weight for the different body styles & the different engine/transmission combinations starts with identifying the BASE 6 cylinder engine and the BASE 8 cylinder engine. Once the BASE engines are identified it is a matter of applying the correct adder for different engines/transmission options. With that stated it must be established what the BASE 6 cylinder engine and the BASE 8 cylinder engine is and their respective shipping weights. The base 6 cylinder engine is the 230/140. The base 8 cylinder engine is the 327/210. The 6 cyl 230/140 BASE Cp curb wt is 3005 – therefore the BASE Shipping WT is 2926. The 6 cyl 230/140 BASE Conv curb wt is 3255 – therefore the BASE Shipping WT is 3176. The 8 cyl 327/210 BASE Cp curb wt is 3135 – therefore the BASE Shipping Wt is 3056. The 8 cyl 327/210 BASE Conv curb wt is 3385 – therefore the BASE Shipping WT is 3306. Now the adders come into play to find the correct shipping wts for the different engine combinations. The weight adders (or subtractions) are applied to the base shipping weights to determine the correct shipping weight for a specific body style & engine/trans combination. Base-------------230/140 engine L22---- +17#’s 250/155 engine Std----- -16#’s 307/200 engine Base ----------- 302/290 engine Base ----------- 327/210 engine LM1 --- +86#’s 350/255 engine L48 ---- +86#’s 350/300 engine L35 --- +249#’s 396/325 engine L34 --- +309#’s 396/350 engine L78 --- +281#’s 396/375 engine with cast iron heads L79 --- +210#’s 396/375 engine with al heads L72 --- +311#’s 427/425 engine ZL1 --- + 68#’s 427/430 engine 400 Turbo Trans--- 57#’s This has been a through explanation of how the class guide is established. Hopefully this answers your specific questions with the reasons behind the answers. I’ll be glad to help explain this further if necessary. Wesley Show quoted text

01-28-2020, 10:34 PM	#5
GUMP VIP Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Shelby, NC Posts: 1,665 Likes: 1,709 Liked 1,732 Times in 418 Posts	Re: 1969 Camaros What impact does all this have?