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Old 08-27-2011, 07:12 PM   #1
vic guilmino
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Default how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

anybody have the class winners from the 73 summernationals
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

Vic, I just happen to have that page, out of Dragster, in my scrapbook.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

I'd also be interested in reading that, can anyone here post that info.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

Since Vic initiated this thread, I assume he meant Stock. These were the Class winners:

A/S No entries
B/S Michael Papp,69 Chevelle 13.19
C/S Truman Fields,68 Pont FB 12.56
D/S Victor Guilmino, 70 CyClone 13.42
E/S Bill Dyak, 69 Camero 14.06
F/S Stephan Tate, 70 Cuda 14.52
G/S Ronald Fors, 66 Ford 15.80
H/S Michael Smith, 71 Plynouth 13.82
I/S No Entries
J/S Al Provost, 73 Olds Omega 13.82
K/S Frank Facciponti, 66 Impala 22.27
L/S No Entries
M/S Robert Wilson, 69 Chevy N/T
N/S No Entries
O/S No Entries
P/S Richard Jones, 66 Chevy 20.99
Q/S Paul Verhines, 66 Chevy 16.05
R/S No Entries
T/S No Entries
U/S Douglas Stevenson, 66 Chevy 16.82
V/S Tom Gould, 66 Corvair 16.43
W/S Wally Allen, 72 Capri 17.00
X/S No Entries
Y/S Marsh & Auchmoody, 71 Vega Del 17.19

AS/A No Entries
B/SA No Entries
C/SA Fred Yoder, 70 Buick 12.57
D/SA Ron Goodwin, 70 Oldsmobile 16.89
E/SA Bob Bannon, 69 Ford 13.56
F/SA No winner or no entries
G/SA Jack Worrell, 69 Fairlane 14.27
H/SA Carl Lackey, 71 Buick 13.50
I/SA Keith Miller, 67 Pontiac 14.80
J/SA Joe Britton, 72 Cougar 14.83
K/SA Paul Mayo, &1 Oldsmobile 16.99
L/SA Carl Askenback, 73 Olds Wagon 15.34
M/SA Tom Tereau, 69 Chevelle 14.60
N/SA Frank LaBanca, 66 Chevy 17.87
O/SA Barry Bean, 68 Chevy 15.23
P/SA Oscar B. Hacker, Jr 66 Chevy 15.16
Q/SA John Mason & Al Vanis 73 Pont 15.54
R/SA Stanley Longo, 65 Dodge 16.73
T/SA No entries
U/SA James Edlin, 65 Dodge Wagon 16.97
V/SA Ronald Blanchard, 67 Plymouth 17.42
W/SA Mike Moschello, 69 Camero 19.58
X/SA No Entries
Y/SA Harry Doolittle, 19.56


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Old 09-23-2021, 10:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

Can anybody tell me exactly what Pontiac body & engine this '67 Pontiac was.

"...I/SA Keith Miller, 67 Pontiac 14.80..."

Looks like the 4-barrel GTO & Firebird would run a higher class.

But, some of the 428 powered big cars would fit. If that's what this car was, I'd like to know more about it. Could be the car in pic #3.

Would also like info on this '73 Pontiac.

"...Q/SA John Mason & Al Vanis 73 Pont 15.54..."

Al won Stock @ Indy in '74 with an O/SA Ventura, which had to be a '74 4-barrel car. But, since the cars are very similar, I assume they could have claimed a '73 & run a 2-barrel, to make Q/SA. My GUESS is that it was the same car, run as a '73 in '73 & a '74 in '74. It had Maxon Pontiac on it. Wondering if Mason was spelled wrong & was supposed to be Maxon ? Anybody know the info on this car ?

Hey, the '73 Pontiac listed may not be the same car that Al drove in '74. Don't know.

Thanks to any who can provide more info !

PS: In the 2nd pic, I just noticed that the rear tire has 6 grooves in it & is not wrinkling, at all. So I assume it was a hard compound street tire. Also noticed the tail pipe behind the tire. Maybe those items were required in '74 ?
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

I/SA=12.00 Possibilities, 67 Pontiac

My guesses in likely order:
428/360hp Big wagon
326/285hp Tempest 4dr HT or Convert or FB Convert
400/325hp Catalina 2dr HT
400/333hp Grand Prix

Another question:
In 1971, Fields won D/S=8.50 class with his RamAir2 Bird.
The Ra2 had to be factored to about 375hp to put the car up into D/S=8.50 class.

Now in 1973 Fields won C/S=9.00 class.
Did the Ra2 get factored down or did he switch to a RA1 factored at the GTO's 360hp number?
3300/360=9.17 fits 1973 C/S=9.00 class

I dont know about the 1973 cars, I have no idea how NHRA factored all those Net HP cars back up to "Gross Factored" HP. I have the current class guides online, but who knows what they did back in 1973.

I wish I did - I started running in 1975 so that would be my era, but with all that Net HP factory ratings it has to be a nightmare to figure out what car/engine went in what class for the 1972 & newer cars.

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Old 09-23-2021, 09:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

OMG I just noticed:
1. This thread is 10 years old but
2. Was started by Victor Guilmino who won D/S=9.50 class
3. And that is the 1st national NHRA win I've found (so far) for the big Lima 429SCJ FoMoCo.

Looks like it was finally coming into its own.
The 429SCJ J-code (shaker cold air) was factored unfairly at 425hp in 1970 when it came out.
I think NHRA figured FoMoCo was pulling another 428CJ and underrating it by 50hp. Well, they WERE underrating it, but not by 50hp.

In 1971 the 429SCJ-J was factored down to 395hp which near as I can figure should have made it very competitive.
Cyclone 3773/395=9.55, right near the top of the D/S=9.50 class here.
But that was when FoMoCo totally bailed out of racing so no factory interest at all.
FINALLY in 1973, here's a win.

I know the "429SCJ" does well in F.A.S.T. because you can stuff so many inches into that giant short block, and with those sewer pipes, it never runs out of intake port. But it's been harder to find national wins from back in the 1970s from the "little" 429 stock cubes.

Would love to hear from Victor about that car if he is still on here.
I had a 429SCJ in the late 1970s but never raced it. Doggone it.

Last edited by DeuceCoupe; 09-23-2021 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

Don't know about all the factoring back then.

But for the '75 season, the '68 400 Bird 330hp was 330hp @ 3300lbs. Perfect 10lbs per hp.

The '69 Goat 350hp was 350hp @ 3500lbs. Also a perfect 10lbs per hp, but 200 lbs heavier than the Bird, with basically the same engine. Needless to say, the Bird was MUCH more competitive.

Would love to know exactly when the hp factor was lowered for the '69 350hp GTO. Interested in knowing all the drops, or if it was just one big one.

Since you're a CJ guy, I just can't resist telling you this one. Aw, I COULD resist. But I won't.

I only had one street race in my '69 GTO. I was cruising over to Monroe to see TJ, in 1970. As I came into a little country town, on the way, I saw a guy come out onto the edge of the road & start flaggin me down.

So, I pulled in to see what he wanted. Well, the guy he was with was sittin in a 428CJ Torino. I think it was a '68. Could be wrong, since I'm not a Ford guy. I'd heard that the car was one of the quickest Ford street cars in our area. But, they'd heard about my Goat & challenged me to a race, right then.

Well, hey, what could I say ? There was no excuse. I had to race. So, we drove around to a long straight stretch. The passenger got out & flagged us off. I won by several lengths & didn't even go back to talk. I just slowed down to 55mph & cruised on over to see TJ, who was goin to college, at the time.

One thing's for sure. They never flagged me down for a race, again. I don't really even remember ever seeing that car again. Never was challenged to another street race. Took it off the street in '72, & onto the track in '73.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool View Post
Don't know about all the factoring back then.

But for the '75 season, the '68 400 Bird 330hp was 330hp @ 3300lbs. Perfect 10lbs per hp.

The '69 Goat 350hp was 350hp @ 3500lbs. Also a perfect 10lbs per hp, but 200 lbs heavier than the Bird, with basically the same engine. Needless to say, the Bird was MUCH more competitive.

Would love to know exactly when the hp factor was lowered for the '69 350hp GTO. Interested in knowing all the drops, or if it was just one big one.

Since you're a CJ guy, I just can't resist telling you this one. Aw, I COULD resist. But I won't.

I only had one street race in my '69 GTO. I was cruising over to Monroe to see TJ, in 1970. As I came into a little country town, on the way, I saw a guy come out onto the edge of the road & start flaggin me down.

So, I pulled in to see what he wanted. Well, the guy he was with was sittin in a 428CJ Torino. I think it was a '68. Could be wrong, since I'm not a Ford guy. I'd heard that the car was one of the quickest Ford street cars in our area. But, they'd heard about my Goat & challenged me to a race, right then.

Well, hey, what could I say ? There was no excuse. I had to race. So, we drove around to a long straight stretch. The passenger got out & flagged us off. I won by several lengths & didn't even go back to talk. I just slowed down to 55mph & cruised on over to see TJ, who was goin to college, at the time.

One thing's for sure. They never flagged me down for a race, again. I don't really even remember ever seeing that car again. Never was challenged to another street race. Took it off the street in '72, & onto the track in '73.
See this thread - about 5 years ago I was just starting this project & Dwight Southerland was a great help on the factoring stuff.
IN GENERAL, the Firebirds got factored up to the GTO ratings.
But, a few exceptions - the 68 Bird 400/330hp was one of them - didnt get factored.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...t=62510&page=9

I've Gonkulated (computed, program I wrote) just about every OEM combo of the 1950s-60s, and from what I can see, the base Bird & GTO 400s probably should've all had the 335hp rating the GTO had in 1967.
Give or take 5hp or so for the cams, manual vs auto.

But, I never saw NHRA factor an engine DOWN from the OEM rating - not until much later, not sure when. So since the Bird was probably right at 330hp, and the GTO was too high at 350hp but they weren't into down-factoring (yet) so they just left it alone.

1971 may have been the 1st year that NHRA down-factored their OWN ratings. The 440-6v Mopar IIRC had been factored to 410hp, was then factored DOWN to 390hp in 1971 & started winning. The 429SCJ (J-shaker hood) Ford had been factored to 425hp, then factored down to 395hp in 1971 & started winning eg this 1973 meet. But those still weren't factored down below OEM. So the 400 base GTO was probably stuck at 350hp.

Great story about your RamAir3 vs the big 428CJ Torino. Near as I can tell from both Gonkulating and about 70 period road tests of those combos (all RamAir1 & RamAir3 GTO/Bird and all 428CJ Mustang/Fairlane) they're very close. About a 1mph edge to the 428CJ cars in the road tests, but when it's that close as you know it comes down to tune & driving.
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Old 09-26-2021, 07:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: how about the class winner from the 73 summernationals

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe View Post
OMG I just noticed:
1. This thread is 10 years old but
Would love to hear from Victor about that car if he is still on here.
I had a 429SCJ in the late 1970s but never raced it. Doggone it.
Vic still has this car and bought it new. He still drives it on the street in nice weather. He does look around in here every once in a while. Maybe he'll post back!
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