Alcohol question

Tim H · 09-23-2009, 06:14 PM

For the race car , not to drink. What might the difference be between Racing alcohol from a supplier such as VP versus Methyl Alcohol I can buy from my local Napa store ? Considering switching from gas to alky for next project.

Alan Kenny · 09-27-2009, 11:35 AM

Tim,
I believe the Napa stuff is Methyl Hydrate which has water in it and not good for racing. You need to run pure Methanol or Ethanol for racing with NO water. Methanol is available from chemical companies as well as VP. The VP stuff is more expensive but comes in lined drums and is always absolutely clean. We never had an issue with VP alcohol.
We used VP M1 and added the additive (M2? I believe). The newer alcohols M5? is more expensive and makes more power but I have heard it can affect fuel pumps and carbs. . . I would stick to the M1 and use the additive.

Al Kenny

Bill Baer · 09-28-2009, 08:08 PM

Tim

Al's right Methanol is what you want to use, I have used both VP and the stuff from the local chemical company and haven't noticed a difference except price.
There are a couple of things to consider while it's half the cost of racing gas you will use twice as much. It's a great solvent and will attack any un-anodized aluminum and some rubber hoses. your fuel system (pump and lines) needs to deliver more fuel.
You need to have bronze valve guides as the methanol will wash the oil off of them and the cast iron ones don't last too long.
I also run scented top oil (lube) for valve guide life and because it doesn't smell great.
I have always run it with one of Ron's fuel Injection systems they are simple and offer instant throttle response I have seen good and bad in alchol carbs.
It will make the car vary less with weather changes (more consistent)and with fuel injection the car will be a little faster but it will be harder to start especially if the temperature drops below ~60F.and it will take longer to heat up and if you don't have a vacumn pump the oil will look like snot and need to be changed more frequently.
Sincerely

Tim H · 09-29-2009, 05:45 PM

Thanks Al and Bill for the info. There is more to making a successful switch from race gas than I initially thought. I have all winter to prepare.

Steves68Nova · 09-30-2009, 12:43 PM

Is it true you have to remove the foam from your fuel cell because the alcohol dissolves it? Someone told me that and I had never heard that before. I have thought about changing myself.

Steve

Bill Baer · 10-12-2009, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steves68Nova

Is it true you have to remove the foam from your fuel cell because the alcohol dissolves it? Someone told me that and I had never heard that before. I have thought about changing myself.

Steve

I have heard the same thing and it may be true if you switch from gas to alcohol, I have always run alcohol and the foam in my Jaz fuel cell looks just fine after several years?

dragst racer · 10-12-2009, 12:43 PM

If you check around they make foam for alcohol fuels, that is different than the foam that comes in cells that is gas. I boght some once and never put it in just ran with no foam.

THE LEGEND · 11-14-2009, 07:09 AM

Take out foam.
Another trick for milky oil. Run it Hot. I always get mine to 200 before I park it helps evaporate the water. I ran alky this season in my dragster. I changed oil twice. I probably could've went longer Oil looked fine. Also AMSOIL makes a racing synthetic for Alky engines.
Be careful with the Smelly additive it can gel in your fuel system.
If you sit for more than a week spray carb with wd40 keeps it from sticking.
Alky is corrosive and will wear out your engine parts quicker than normal.
One more thing. The old story about Alky being more consistent is a myth. Especially if your gas carb is set up correctly.
My gas car is just as good as my alky one. Next season I'm switching one of them so I don't need to carry both fuels.
Chip

Mike Croley · 04-27-2010, 08:33 AM

Fuel cell foam is not normally interchangeable , methanol and ethanol dissolves the foam made for gasoline , so check with your fuel cell manufacturer . You do want to keep foam in the cell .
You'll find virtually no difference between major brands of racing methanol and chemical company brands . But beware of very low priced methanol , it's often recycled and not very good for race use .

Mike Croley
dist. for Competition Race Fuels
386-341-4308

283nova · 04-28-2010, 08:16 PM

when i worked for the mahoney brothers, we used to use TARR chemical company methanol in the blown alky nostalgia roadster. worked good was really consistent.

09-23-2009, 06:14 PM	#1
Tim H VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,010 Likes: 898 Liked 430 Times in 142 Posts	Alcohol question For the race car , not to drink. What might the difference be between Racing alcohol from a supplier such as VP versus Methyl Alcohol I can buy from my local Napa store ? Considering switching from gas to alky for next project.

09-27-2009, 11:35 AM	#2
Alan Kenny Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 45 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Alcohol question Tim, I believe the Napa stuff is Methyl Hydrate which has water in it and not good for racing. You need to run pure Methanol or Ethanol for racing with NO water. Methanol is available from chemical companies as well as VP. The VP stuff is more expensive but comes in lined drums and is always absolutely clean. We never had an issue with VP alcohol. We used VP M1 and added the additive (M2? I believe). The newer alcohols M5? is more expensive and makes more power but I have heard it can affect fuel pumps and carbs. . . I would stick to the M1 and use the additive. Al Kenny

09-28-2009, 08:08 PM	#3
Bill Baer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Nothern IL Posts: 596 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Alcohol question Tim Al's right Methanol is what you want to use, I have used both VP and the stuff from the local chemical company and haven't noticed a difference except price. There are a couple of things to consider while it's half the cost of racing gas you will use twice as much. It's a great solvent and will attack any un-anodized aluminum and some rubber hoses. your fuel system (pump and lines) needs to deliver more fuel. You need to have bronze valve guides as the methanol will wash the oil off of them and the cast iron ones don't last too long. I also run scented top oil (lube) for valve guide life and because it doesn't smell great. I have always run it with one of Ron's fuel Injection systems they are simple and offer instant throttle response I have seen good and bad in alchol carbs. It will make the car vary less with weather changes (more consistent)and with fuel injection the car will be a little faster but it will be harder to start especially if the temperature drops below ~60F.and it will take longer to heat up and if you don't have a vacumn pump the oil will look like snot and need to be changed more frequently. Sincerely __________________ Bill Baer 3391 SC, 339B SC, QR

09-29-2009, 05:45 PM	#4
Tim H VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,010 Likes: 898 Liked 430 Times in 142 Posts	Re: Alcohol question Thanks Al and Bill for the info. There is more to making a successful switch from race gas than I initially thought. I have all winter to prepare. Last edited by Tim H; 09-29-2009 at 05:48 PM.

09-30-2009, 12:43 PM	#5
Steves68Nova Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Rudy, AR Posts: 125 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Alcohol question Is it true you have to remove the foam from your fuel cell because the alcohol dissolves it? Someone told me that and I had never heard that before. I have thought about changing myself. Steve __________________ Steve Prado Rudy, AR S/ST4202 H/R 4203

10-12-2009, 12:43 PM	#7
dragst racer Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Alcohol question If you check around they make foam for alcohol fuels, that is different than the foam that comes in cells that is gas. I boght some once and never put it in just ran with no foam.

11-14-2009, 07:09 AM	#8
THE LEGEND VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Fayetteville, n.c. Posts: 1,411 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Alcohol question Take out foam. Another trick for milky oil. Run it Hot. I always get mine to 200 before I park it helps evaporate the water. I ran alky this season in my dragster. I changed oil twice. I probably could've went longer Oil looked fine. Also AMSOIL makes a racing synthetic for Alky engines. Be careful with the Smelly additive it can gel in your fuel system. If you sit for more than a week spray carb with wd40 keeps it from sticking. Alky is corrosive and will wear out your engine parts quicker than normal. One more thing. The old story about Alky being more consistent is a myth. Especially if your gas carb is set up correctly. My gas car is just as good as my alky one. Next season I'm switching one of them so I don't need to carry both fuels. Chip

04-27-2010, 08:33 AM	#9
Mike Croley Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 182 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Alcohol question Fuel cell foam is not normally interchangeable , methanol and ethanol dissolves the foam made for gasoline , so check with your fuel cell manufacturer . You do want to keep foam in the cell . You'll find virtually no difference between major brands of racing methanol and chemical company brands . But beware of very low priced methanol , it's often recycled and not very good for race use . Mike Croley dist. for Competition Race Fuels 386-341-4308

04-28-2010, 08:16 PM	#10
283nova Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: spokane, wa Posts: 88 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Alcohol question when i worked for the mahoney brothers, we used to use TARR chemical company methanol in the blown alky nostalgia roadster. worked good was really consistent.