ET with and without wheelie.

my69396 · 10-06-2024, 08:29 PM

How much will a wheelie affect ET plus or nothi?

TOSTO RACING · 10-06-2024, 08:39 PM

My personal experience is big wheelies are faster for me. And I've heard the saying loose is fast

Rear wheel 60 's for the win

Jeff Stout · 10-06-2024, 09:46 PM

I borrowed a SS Camaro and co sisterly went faster by .04 when car would wheelie smack the bars a day spin the tire. Settle car down and .04 slower.

1320racer · 10-07-2024, 08:38 AM

When dead hooking, typically no wheelie will run quicker ET vs. a wheelie breaking the beams with the back tires which will also run a slower 60 foot by about .09.

go to 2:33:00, 5:25:00, 6:48:20 right lane. Despite appearing to break the 60 foot beam with the rear tires, it is not. We dial in the 60 foots with the front shock extension based on DA swing which is everything as it relates to ET and consistency. Our 60 foots for the entire 3 day weekend were 1.26.

Dan Bennett · 10-07-2024, 02:37 PM

I've been sitting here a while deciding whether to post. I honestly could write a couple of pages but will try and keep it as concise as i can.

Though my experience was mostly in a different class, I've had this conversation with class racers a few times. It's probably going to be a very unpopular view here, but in each case I told them that wheelies simply slowed a car down. Every one of them disagreed and told me that stockers and superstockers had to do them. But wait! My opinion is only true if there are no other variables involved.

Think of the force it would take for 5 or six guys to lift the front end of the car to the same height if it was just sitting in the pits. Yes, suspension leverage will reduce that but it's still a question of straight physics. Whatever force is being used to lift the front end could/should be instead transferred to moving the car forward.

But like I said, it's complicated by variables. Forget wheelstands for a moment. Wheelspeed is everything. Period. Higher is better as long as they're driving the car and not losing momentum to excessive spin. So if a wheelie's effect on weight transfer to the rear tires keeps them from going out the window into being less effective moving the car forward, it will be an overall plus.

The people here will forget more than I will ever know about class racing. And it may just not be possible with what you have to work with to achieve tires right on the edge while keeping the front wheels dancing. But physics can't be denied, and that's the ideal case for power to the ground and acceleration.

A different class, but when I'd watch the edges of the slicks quiver all the way through first gear I knew it was going to be a good run.

jimmyparker · 10-07-2024, 03:30 PM

Back in the eighties I was running a SS/BA Corvette that did big wheelies and was told by most that l needed to calm it down some with limiters, etc. I tried several ways of keeping the front end on the ground but they all hurt the ET so I went back to letting it get pretty high and never looked back.

I would explain my theory but might get beat up by a physics major.

1320racer · 10-07-2024, 03:35 PM

4 decades ago no one built a double adjust shock. Today, they are readily available from multiple manufactures, my choice is Afco and with the turn of a knob

my car launches without any wheelie, dead hooks and runs quicker 60 foot and ET.

Oh and my engine makes more power than yours did and runs a smaller slick than you did.

Dan Bennett · 10-07-2024, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyparker

Back in the eighties I was running a SS/BA Corvette that did big wheelies and was told by most that l needed to calm it down some with limiters, etc. I tried several ways of keeping the front end on the ground but they all hurt the ET so I went back to letting it get pretty high and never looked back.

I would explain my theory but might get beat up by a physics major.

That's pretty much what Kenny Schindler told me and I highly value both your opinions. Being proven wrong is one of the most valuable things that can happen in learning things. It's one reason I went ahead and posted what i did because obviously I must be missing something and would love to know what it is.

It's always frustrating for me to run into things like "that shouldn't work but it does" and "that was a big improvement but I have no idea why". I'm talking about those statements coming from racers I could not respect more and have no need to defend their abilities.

Thinking more about it, I guess even with all the years we've learned new things, there are still a lot of areas in drag racing like that. And I totally understand that when you're on the track, it doesn't matter if you can detail why something is quicker because all that matters is that it is.

1320racer · 10-07-2024, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Bennett

all that matters is that it is.

but it's NOT!

My Firebird IS a super stock car, built by arguably the best and it DOES ET quicker with no wheelie. The engine under the stock hood doesn't know it's not super stock legal.

jimmyparker · 10-07-2024, 05:16 PM

I forgot that my example was 40 years old and no one built good shocks back then but it appears that what worked then is still working reasonably well today but with much better control due to the evolution of shocks.

Exact reason I didn't share my theory.

Bracket cars and superstock cars are two different animals, transmissions, converters, gear ratios, power curves, etc., etc.

10-06-2024, 08:29 PM	#1
my69396 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 275 Likes: 0 Liked 36 Times in 14 Posts	ET with and without wheelie. How much will a wheelie affect ET plus or nothi?

10-06-2024, 08:39 PM	#2
TOSTO RACING Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: DRAGSTRIP Posts: 845 Likes: 782 Liked 526 Times in 158 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. My personal experience is big wheelies are faster for me. And I've heard the saying loose is fast Rear wheel 60 's for the win __________________ 5664 AA/SA 1970 NOVA Last edited by TOSTO RACING; 10-06-2024 at 08:43 PM.

10-06-2024, 09:46 PM	#3
Jeff Stout VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: phoenix Posts: 1,466 Likes: 59 Liked 703 Times in 280 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. I borrowed a SS Camaro and co sisterly went faster by .04 when car would wheelie smack the bars a day spin the tire. Settle car down and .04 slower.

10-07-2024, 08:38 AM	#4
1320racer VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,164 Likes: 109 Liked 586 Times in 287 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. When dead hooking, typically no wheelie will run quicker ET vs. a wheelie breaking the beams with the back tires which will also run a slower 60 foot by about .09. go to 2:33:00, 5:25:00, 6:48:20 right lane. Despite appearing to break the 60 foot beam with the rear tires, it is not. We dial in the 60 foots with the front shock extension based on DA swing which is everything as it relates to ET and consistency. Our 60 foots for the entire 3 day weekend were 1.26. Last edited by 1320racer; 10-07-2024 at 09:03 AM.

10-07-2024, 02:37 PM	#5
Dan Bennett Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 406 Likes: 714 Liked 489 Times in 114 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. I've been sitting here a while deciding whether to post. I honestly could write a couple of pages but will try and keep it as concise as i can. Though my experience was mostly in a different class, I've had this conversation with class racers a few times. It's probably going to be a very unpopular view here, but in each case I told them that wheelies simply slowed a car down. Every one of them disagreed and told me that stockers and superstockers had to do them. But wait! My opinion is only true if there are no other variables involved. Think of the force it would take for 5 or six guys to lift the front end of the car to the same height if it was just sitting in the pits. Yes, suspension leverage will reduce that but it's still a question of straight physics. Whatever force is being used to lift the front end could/should be instead transferred to moving the car forward. But like I said, it's complicated by variables. Forget wheelstands for a moment. Wheelspeed is everything. Period. Higher is better as long as they're driving the car and not losing momentum to excessive spin. So if a wheelie's effect on weight transfer to the rear tires keeps them from going out the window into being less effective moving the car forward, it will be an overall plus. The people here will forget more than I will ever know about class racing. And it may just not be possible with what you have to work with to achieve tires right on the edge while keeping the front wheels dancing. But physics can't be denied, and that's the ideal case for power to the ground and acceleration. A different class, but when I'd watch the edges of the slicks quiver all the way through first gear I knew it was going to be a good run.

10-07-2024, 03:30 PM	#6
jimmyparker Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: columbus, georgia Posts: 373 Likes: 46 Liked 280 Times in 80 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. Back in the eighties I was running a SS/BA Corvette that did big wheelies and was told by most that l needed to calm it down some with limiters, etc. I tried several ways of keeping the front end on the ground but they all hurt the ET so I went back to letting it get pretty high and never looked back. I would explain my theory but might get beat up by a physics major.

10-07-2024, 03:35 PM	#7
1320racer VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,164 Likes: 109 Liked 586 Times in 287 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. 4 decades ago no one built a double adjust shock. Today, they are readily available from multiple manufactures, my choice is Afco and with the turn of a knob my car launches without any wheelie, dead hooks and runs quicker 60 foot and ET. Oh and my engine makes more power than yours did and runs a smaller slick than you did.

10-07-2024, 05:16 PM	#10
jimmyparker Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: columbus, georgia Posts: 373 Likes: 46 Liked 280 Times in 80 Posts	Re: ET with and without wheelie. I forgot that my example was 40 years old and no one built good shocks back then but it appears that what worked then is still working reasonably well today but with much better control due to the evolution of shocks. Exact reason I didn't share my theory. Bracket cars and superstock cars are two different animals, transmissions, converters, gear ratios, power curves, etc., etc.