DP #24 Engine failure....

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by LSP

Well, that 1 pin bore is not going to hold that piston, is the #3 exhaust valve bent?

Nope....oddly no not really.....a little runout more than it had before but not "bent"

[art leong]

Originally Posted by drooze

Alan, thanks for the advice and under "normal" circumstances or if it was one of my camera's or a bike of mine alone I would wait.

BUT in our case time is not an option, its something neither me or my father are promised tommorow. We tend to learn on our feet.

And thanks to the directions, and advice here on CR and from people met here on CR alone (we me and the old man are kinda recluses because well we are busy) well....we do know what went wrong, the rod bolts failed. AND now we have a solution thanks to the "DP Confederation" as it were, Someone called and said someone just found an off the shelf answer from another brand L19 220kpsi...should be sufficient So I called them and they told me I checked Summit and Voila in stock...so tommorow a grueling 15 minute trip to Summit .... I will have to recheck the rod clearances as the spec is tighter on them and Im afraid of the crush, 63 vs 89 lbs torque....(and no thats not what Im going to install them by but) its enough of a baseline it could change my clearances possibly.

We work in parrelel tasks always me an the old man and were good at it togehter.....

Thats how we put the DP together in as short a time as we did, nothing painted in a corner everything happening at the same time.

AND we learn by doing, and failing and doing again, until we get it "right" we both him and I have a BAD habbit of losing interest at that point when we hit "top of the game" Thats what we both like and keeps us interested in racing of one form or another we have no illusion we will ever be the top of the chain.

We enjoy all of it, litterally all of it, we find ways to find enjoyment even in failure.

And were both too stupid to quit even when we should......so well do as we can and the cards have been dealt, well plug away with the determination it takes.

We learn by doing I guess is my point and we dont have the luxury because of circumstances to approach it in a ..... slower ? fashion, lest we may not have the chance at all.

Chris I"m sure you know this but. Make sure you follow the manufacturers instructions on what lube to use on the bolts. And if they are bolts and nuts make sure you resize the big end after putting in the new bolts.

[Rich Biebel]

Originally Posted by drooze;[I

There isnt a DP person running I have heard of spinning one UNDER 8k in a run of competition.....maybe there are and if they want to speak up....hey....lol....but everyone I know is turning it that and FASTER ![/I]

That rpm level is generally reserved for SS'ers.......If that is where your target rpm ceiling is......you need to be sure everything is as good as it can be.....

RPM kills parts..........and the dangers go up exponentially as the rpms increase......I don't see anything much different on that engine than any other engine. Small block Chevy Stockers don't generally turn 8000+ rpm although some might.....and all would if they could and stay in one piece....and the engine continued to make more power at those higher rpms.

I am not so sure that 8000+ rpms is a good way to race and expect to make it thru multiple races. Generally staying in one piece is required to be successfull at racing. Stocker engines generally last a long time. Every run is not a record attempt on the ragid edge..........or one where you attempt to rotate the Earth......If you wish to race like that.....more power to you.......but making it to the next round is always a goal.....It's simple...ya can't race if your broke.....

Originally Posted by drooze

Nope....oddly no not really.....a little runout more than it had before but not "bent"

Who's pistons are those? - if the exhaust valve is not bent, why did it contact in just those two spots? - is the exhaust pocket angle the same as the head valve angle?

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Id like to run it lower and with what I think we have as a torque advantage Im hoping we will, my target was set it to 7500....and go from there. at 7200 shift point, (I think) stepping on the limiter all the way in 1 and 2 (set shift and limiter to same on accident) I ran a 10.87 with a soft, soft bad lauch (driver error) sooooo.....dono....

The 8k on this "spin" was unintentional....it was an error....

I agree, I do know we will start out trying a heck of a lot lower , but knowing what others are doing, and they have experienced these well.....Irv Johns, Duell, and others its not like theyre fresh, GRANTED they had better more experienced builders build there motors.....so...

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

That rpm level is generally reserved for SS'ers.......If that is where your target rpm ceiling is......you need to be sure everything is as good as it can be.....

RPM kills parts..........and the dangers go up exponentially as the rpms increase......I don't see anything much different on that engine than any other engine. Small block Chevy Stockers don't generally turn 8000+ rpm although some might.....and all would if they could and stay in one piece....and the engine continued to make more power at those higher rpms.

I am not so sure that 8000+ rpms is a good way to race and expect to make it thru multiple races. Generally staying in one piece is required to be successfull at racing. Stocker engines generally last a long time. Every run is not a record attempt on the ragid edge..........or one where you attempt to rotate the Earth......If you wish to race like that.....more power to you.......but making it to the next round is always a goal.....It's simple...ya can't race if your broke.....

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by drooze

There isnt a DP person running I have heard of spinning one UNDER 8k in a run of competition.....maybe there are and if they want to speak up....hey....lol....but everyone I know is turning it that and FASTER !

I heard different from a good source. Even if that were true, my suggestion to you is the same as it was for Atlanta, run a little on the soft side until you fully understand your combination.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I heard different from a good source. Even if that were true, my suggestion to you is the same as it was for Atlanta, run a little on the soft side until you fully understand your combination.

Check....like I said there may be...I just hadnt heard of em

I plan to/hope to....that was why I pulled it back on the dyno to 72 after engine #1.....I should have left the limiter at 8k.....not 82 as it was...I dont think it would have mattered in this case even at 78 it could/would have spun up another 200 free....

But at Houston (IF we get there...) well....light and easy...gotta get it to Vegas for the old man to blow up (hell LOVE that when he read it tommorow....trust me....ok maybe not...lol)

[Adger Smith]

When you loose a rod bearing the extra clearance between the crank and whats left of the bearing and rod start acting like a slide hammer and all the damage you have is the results. This slide hammer effect snaps pins and pops the pin bosses out of pistons. It can also snap rod bolts. hummm 8,000 rpm = 133.3333 times a second that the slide hammer hits. Looks to me like you simply lost a bearing.. show us a picture of what is left of the bearing.. that might be all we need to see.

I didn't see any spun bearings in the pics on the site the link goes to?

Are there more pics?

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by LSP

I didn't see any spun bearings in the pics on the site the link goes to?

Are there more pics?

The only potentially spun bearing was #3, the #4 rod is sitting in its place in the pics (the Z'd rod)

All the rest of the journals are as clean as can be.

The engine drank garbage, and its hard to tell on the bearings (to me) what was caused by that and when.

Ive got another "issue" now that well isnt a product of anthing other than incorrect information. Note to self, when something "smells" bad spend the time to dig a little deeper not matter what everyone says (not everyone here) but it could have been a "misunderstanding", and a typo on Mopars part, or a change a bulletin wasnt recieved on.....and well.....a difference in early or late/other DP motors ? wont know till I talk to Stanton tommorow........no "good" solution that isnt really a "hack" in the time I have to make it to Houston. 1 chance....1 very small chance.....

Oh well...itll be "right" in the end just not by tommorow.