Questions w/ running Alcohol? - Page 2

Hnasko Racing · 04-03-2008, 10:37 AM

w/ rons toilet

63corvette · 04-03-2008, 11:22 AM

Some years back (1994-95) I ran a SC dragster with a 460 BBC and a dual Rons toilet. It was a good combination at the time.
You can figure the alcohol consumption to be double what gas consumption will be.
I would drive the car back to the pits and not tow it and usually it was about a 2 gal per pass or a little less including warming up, running and returning to the pits. Some tracks a little less depending on the parking situation. It takes a little longer to warm the motor up but it runs cooler so heating is not a problem even on the hottest days with a decent cooling system.
You need to watch closely the leaning of the motor when throttle stopping an alcohol motor. It can cause engine damage very quickly and be very costly. A friend just tried the E-85 and broke the top land compression ring to the top of the piston off from detonation on one piston. Others showed cracks. He had only run the engine about a dozen passes on the E-85. It took a complete set of new pistons for the repair. That is the reason I say be very carefull as it can get expensive no matter which alcohol you choose.
Good Luck With The Combination

Hnasko Racing · 04-03-2008, 01:47 PM

Very good tips 63corvette.

Yeah I would most likely be using a throttle stop on it..

So I mean whats the safest blend or fuel or way to setup the stop ?

VP Fuels M3?

Whats the best way to watch for it leaning besides knockin?

What did you use to run?

Thanks for the advice and experience guys

63corvette · 04-03-2008, 02:19 PM

I bought my alcohol bulk from a oil supplier in the area. It was 100% Methanol. I then used the VP upper lube. I used it in the max amount recommended. I do not recall how much that was to mix in a barrel but it came in pint bottles and I know it was more than one pint per 55 gal barrel that I used.
I do not think you will ever hear the knock in detonation until the damage is already done. My friends engine was already terminal before he noticed anything. I believe it happens when the stop comes on and then goes back to full throttle.
I always made sure my Ron's Toilet was jetted rich and never lean. I also NEVER used the fuel shutoff valve to lean the engine during warmup before runs to warm up the engine quicker. I used the recommended individual runner jet size from Ron. I also put a small gasoline tank on the car and a small electric fuel pump to feed gasoline into the mainfold at the front and rear of the manifold through jets. I ran the engine on gas for a few minutes at race days end with the valve off on the alcohol system. That cleans all the alcohol from the upper cylinders and helps with the Methanols corrosive history. Before using the gasoline flush I did find cylinder etching during routine engine freshening. The gasoline can also be used to prime and start the engine and save the battery and starter. With Ron's setup and mechanical pump starting on alcohol is is little slow until the mechanical pump gets pressure up.
That is about all the hints I have for Ron's system. I have never run a carb setup so I have no experience there.
One last thing is be sure to get a good filter installed in the system and clean it regularly.
Ron's system worked well for me.
Good Luck With Your Setup

Steve OB · 04-03-2008, 04:53 PM

All your questions are good. For more answers try, http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/80760912 & try www.killerrons.com , Killer Rons is run by James Monroe. He will be able to answer many of your question in one shot. He sells a primer plus system that allows you to race on alky & drive on race gas. Drag Race Results has a wealth of knowledge to tap into. Try a searching in the link above. I guarantee you'll have enough reading for the rest of the night.

Greg Barsamian · 05-19-2008, 02:27 PM

We run the exact combination of what your asking.
460 ci BBC in a Race Tech dragster, Rons Toilet, Methanol w/ top lube.
runs 8.0's @ 160. It uses 2 gallons per run driving to the lanes & driving back to the pit.
Same on warm-ups. We DO pull the cable to lean it on the stand to build heat in the motor.
We prime it the old fashoned way with a "squirt bottle"
Buy it by the drum, You'll def go thru it!
Sg

04-03-2008, 10:37 AM	#11
Hnasko Racing Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Questions w/ running Alcohol? w/ rons toilet

04-03-2008, 11:22 AM	#12
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 535 Likes: 117 Liked 281 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Questions w/ running Alcohol? Some years back (1994-95) I ran a SC dragster with a 460 BBC and a dual Rons toilet. It was a good combination at the time. You can figure the alcohol consumption to be double what gas consumption will be. I would drive the car back to the pits and not tow it and usually it was about a 2 gal per pass or a little less including warming up, running and returning to the pits. Some tracks a little less depending on the parking situation. It takes a little longer to warm the motor up but it runs cooler so heating is not a problem even on the hottest days with a decent cooling system. You need to watch closely the leaning of the motor when throttle stopping an alcohol motor. It can cause engine damage very quickly and be very costly. A friend just tried the E-85 and broke the top land compression ring to the top of the piston off from detonation on one piston. Others showed cracks. He had only run the engine about a dozen passes on the E-85. It took a complete set of new pistons for the repair. That is the reason I say be very carefull as it can get expensive no matter which alcohol you choose. Good Luck With The Combination

04-03-2008, 01:47 PM	#13
Hnasko Racing Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Questions w/ running Alcohol? Very good tips 63corvette. Yeah I would most likely be using a throttle stop on it.. So I mean whats the safest blend or fuel or way to setup the stop ? VP Fuels M3? Whats the best way to watch for it leaning besides knockin? What did you use to run? Thanks for the advice and experience guys

04-03-2008, 02:19 PM	#14
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 535 Likes: 117 Liked 281 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Questions w/ running Alcohol? I bought my alcohol bulk from a oil supplier in the area. It was 100% Methanol. I then used the VP upper lube. I used it in the max amount recommended. I do not recall how much that was to mix in a barrel but it came in pint bottles and I know it was more than one pint per 55 gal barrel that I used. I do not think you will ever hear the knock in detonation until the damage is already done. My friends engine was already terminal before he noticed anything. I believe it happens when the stop comes on and then goes back to full throttle. I always made sure my Ron's Toilet was jetted rich and never lean. I also NEVER used the fuel shutoff valve to lean the engine during warmup before runs to warm up the engine quicker. I used the recommended individual runner jet size from Ron. I also put a small gasoline tank on the car and a small electric fuel pump to feed gasoline into the mainfold at the front and rear of the manifold through jets. I ran the engine on gas for a few minutes at race days end with the valve off on the alcohol system. That cleans all the alcohol from the upper cylinders and helps with the Methanols corrosive history. Before using the gasoline flush I did find cylinder etching during routine engine freshening. The gasoline can also be used to prime and start the engine and save the battery and starter. With Ron's setup and mechanical pump starting on alcohol is is little slow until the mechanical pump gets pressure up. That is about all the hints I have for Ron's system. I have never run a carb setup so I have no experience there. One last thing is be sure to get a good filter installed in the system and clean it regularly. Ron's system worked well for me. Good Luck With Your Setup

04-03-2008, 04:53 PM	#15
Steve OB Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lodi, Ohio Posts: 50 Likes: 3 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Questions w/ running Alcohol? All your questions are good. For more answers try, http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/80760912 & try www.killerrons.com , Killer Rons is run by James Monroe. He will be able to answer many of your question in one shot. He sells a primer plus system that allows you to race on alky & drive on race gas. Drag Race Results has a wealth of knowledge to tap into. Try a searching in the link above. I guarantee you'll have enough reading for the rest of the night.

05-19-2008, 02:27 PM	#16
Greg Barsamian VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Massachusetts Posts: 1,383 Likes: 609 Liked 390 Times in 84 Posts	Re: Questions w/ running Alcohol? We run the exact combination of what your asking. 460 ci BBC in a Race Tech dragster, Rons Toilet, Methanol w/ top lube. runs 8.0's @ 160. It uses 2 gallons per run driving to the lanes & driving back to the pit. Same on warm-ups. We DO pull the cable to lean it on the stand to build heat in the motor. We prime it the old fashoned way with a "squirt bottle" Buy it by the drum, You'll def go thru it! Sg