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Old 10-13-2021, 06:09 PM   #101
Rat Patrol
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

DC - You wanted this.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

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Originally Posted by Rat Patrol View Post
DC - You wanted this.
That list brings up some Pontiac questions & comments.

Don Ringer is listed as winning D/D, with Pontiac power. So, aprox what cube engine would that require ? Ya'll know anything about the car or driver ?

D/SA is Ray McClelland. Assume that was with his '62 Cat.

I/SA was John Thropp. Assume that would have been with his familiar '57 Pontiac.

H/SA was Jack Briner. I just ran across that name today. He ran a '65 2+2 Pontiac, named "Movin On".
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Old 10-14-2021, 12:41 AM   #103
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

DC - Someone kindly sent me this. George Gurch...DQd according to the results list.
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Old 10-14-2021, 12:43 AM   #104
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

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Originally Posted by oldskool View Post
That list brings up some Pontiac questions & comments.

Don Ringer is listed as winning D/D, with Pontiac power. So, aprox what cube engine would that require ? Ya'll know anything about the car or driver ?

D/SA is Ray McClelland. Assume that was with his '62 Cat.

I/SA was John Thropp. Assume that would have been with his familiar '57 Pontiac.

H/SA was Jack Briner. I just ran across that name today. He ran a '65 2+2 Pontiac, named "Movin On".
Correct on Thropp and McClelland.
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Old 10-14-2021, 12:46 AM   #105
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Thumbs up Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-69

1969 now published. Thank you both for your help.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpress.com/1969-2/
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Old 10-14-2021, 09:58 AM   #106
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool View Post
That list brings up some Pontiac questions & comments.

Don Ringer is listed as winning D/D, with Pontiac power. So, aprox what cube engine would that require ? Ya'll know anything about the car or driver ?

D/SA is Ray McClelland. Assume that was with his '62 Cat.

I/SA was John Thropp. Assume that would have been with his familiar '57 Pontiac.

H/SA was Jack Briner. I just ran across that name today. He ran a '65 2+2 Pontiac, named "Movin On".

Based on the D/D class my guess would be he was running a dragster.


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Old 10-14-2021, 05:39 PM   #107
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

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Based on the D/D class my guess would be he was running a dragster.


Stan
Stan. The D to the right of the slash mark tells us the car was a dragster. You know, there are A/Dragster, B/Dragster, C/Dragster, etc.

What I'm wanting to know is what size the Pontiac engine was, in that car. By running a D, as compared to an A, B, or C, I'd assume the car either had a small cube engine, OR it was heavier than most higher classed dragsters.

I think Pontiac had a 287, 317, 326, & 347, that could have been used. Or it could have been a 350 or larger engine, in a heavier dragster, I suppose. Could have even been a "Trophy 4", I suppose. Don't have a clue.

And, I know it is a long shot, but hoping somebody might know this car & maybe even have pics. Don't know without asking.

Last edited by oldskool; 10-14-2021 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 10-14-2021, 07:23 PM   #108
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-69

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1969 now published. Thank you both for your help.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpress.com/1969-2/
I'm sorry, but there is just some Pontiac stuff there, which I don't understand.

If I read it right, you said a Ben Wolf '69 GTO won the B/SA class at a race. I assume you just made that up & never actually saw in print what he was driving. Also, if I read the right thing, it says that both winner & RU in B/SA were DQ'd. I'll read it again. I think it was @ Indy '69, right ?

" B/SA Ben Wolf 69 Pontiac GTO Ram Air IV
400cui/370hp 4V "

Don't recall seeing any old pics of a '69 GTO running in that high a class.

I just looked thru my files of '69 GTO pics. I don't even see one that ran C/SA, much less B/SA. Most were either D or E. I assume that back then, the RA3 ran E & the RA4 ran D.

In the Spring Nats class winners lists, it shows a Ben Wolf B/SA '61 Pontiac, which ran a 12.20.

So, were BOTH the '69 GTO AND the '61 Pontiac running B/SA, in '69 ?

Maybe, it was a misprint & the car was actually the Wolf & McClelland '62 Pontiac. I have pics of it with D/SA & C/SA on the window. Maybe for '69, certain 421SD models could run B/SA ?

Might have been a lighter RA2 Bird. That sounds likely. Since the RA4 was factory rated lower in a Bird than the RA4 in a Goat, AND since the '69 Bird is lighter than the Goat, a RA4 Bird also sounds very likely. Pic 4 shows Phil Monteith's '69 RA4 Bird. He bought it new, & it ran B/SA. I vote for a Bird, NOT a Goat.

"...Either way it seems that B/SA=8.50 Mystery Ben Wolf car of Spring 69 was either a:
69 GTO RA4
69 Bird RA4
68 Bird RA2
Nothing else seems to fit up that high..."

I just used an online calculator. Th RA4 engine would have had to have been factored up to at least 389hp in order to get the 3500lb '69 GTO into B-Stock. Then it would have been real heavy for the class. I just noticed that the hp factor has been only 365hp for nearly 20 years. That's 1hp lower than the RA3 engine. But, I suppose the RA4 heads are just too rare & expensive for most, as well as a clean '69 GTO body.

The Indy class winners list shows that Jack Briner won H/SA. Under the caption of the class final pic, you said the other car won. So, was the big Pontiac DQ'd ?

" Ed Merkle’s H/SA winning Fairlane convertible. (1062) "

The more I read, the more confused I am.

The list which appears to have been made up, for the '69 Nats(I assume that's Indy), don't jive with the posted list which I assume was published in the ND. So, do you have info telling who was awarded the class wins, after the DQ's were noted, or ?

" 69 NATIONALS Top Stock Class Winners "

"...D/SA – B Bunker – Pontiac GTO – 12.45 @ 110.97..."

Anyhow, the 1st list shows that a GTO won the D/SA class, with B Bunker driving. But, the official looking list shows that Ray McClelland won D/SA. So, if both these lists are from the '69 Nats @ Indy, which list is correct ?

Can't copy & paste the ND list, but it clearly says it's a list from the '69 NHRA Nationals, & it clearly shows that Ray McClelland won D/SA. So, who really won the class @ Indy '69 ?

Trying to go back thru those lists & get it all straight. On second look, that part about the B/SA '69 GTO was right at the bottom of the Spring Nats list, with very little space between it & the heading for the Indy info. But, that don't change the fact that I don't think a '69 GTO won B/SA, at any '69 nat event. Hey, I could be wrong. It HAS happened.
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Last edited by oldskool; 10-14-2021 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 10-15-2021, 05:45 AM   #109
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

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Stan. The D to the right of the slash mark tells us the car was a dragster. You know, there are A/Dragster, B/Dragster, C/Dragster, etc.

What I'm wanting to know is what size the Pontiac engine was, in that car. By running a D, as compared to an A, B, or C, I'd assume the car either had a small cube engine, OR it was heavier than most higher classed dragsters.

I think Pontiac had a 287, 317, 326, & 347, that could have been used. Or it could have been a 350 or larger engine, in a heavier dragster, I suppose. Could have even been a "Trophy 4", I suppose. Don't have a clue.

And, I know it is a long shot, but hoping somebody might know this car & maybe even have pics. Don't know without asking.

I have never heard anyone reference a dragster as a car before.


Does anyone have a rule book from '69? My guess would be he was running either a 4 or 6 cylinder engine.


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Old 10-15-2021, 08:57 AM   #110
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Default Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

" I have never heard anyone reference a dragster as a car before..."

I can't believe you posted that, even if you were thinking it !

" Dragster (car)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


An early example, a 1958 Fuel rail, on display at the California Automobile Museum
A dragster is a specialized competition automobile used in drag racing...

Woody Gilmore (following the mid-engined Funny Car he built for Doug Thorley) and Pat Foster developed a rear-engined fuel dragster, which was unveiled in December.[8] Driven by Foster, the Gilmore car ran just once, getting up on its single rear wheelie bar and breaking in two at around 220 mph (350 km/h), at Lions Drag Strip.[9] Gilmore and Foster built a similar car, Pawnbroker, for Dwane Ong, incorporating the lessons of the previous car; it debuted in 1970, and proved considerably better.[10] In August, Ong won the 1970 AHRA Nationals in the car.[11] Pawnbroker won the American Hot Rod Association Summernats in Long Island, New York, the first national event win for a rear-engined car, with a pass of 6.83 at 219 mph (352 km/h).[12] "Big Daddy" Don Garlits examined the car and was so impressed with the forward view, he could not understand why everyone did not drive one--and why it did not work.[13] Around the same time, Bernie Schacker's rear-engined car, the first with a rear wing, was the first to run in the sixes, with a 6.98 at 192.70 mph (310.12 km/h), at New York National Speedway's Spring Nationals (an event sanctioned by none of the national bodies).[14]

In April 1970, Mark Williams' car, built for Mike Dollins and Dan Widner (at a cost of only US$2,111.16), first appeared; its 235 in (6,000 mm) wheelbase was significantly longer than the 180 in (4,600 mm) usual for fuellers at the time.[15] The car ran well, but required new driving techniques; Dollins and Widner lacked the money to continue racing it, and it was sold to a Colorado team, which switched to a 354 cu in (5,800 cc) hemi (rather than the usual 392 cu in (6,420 cc).[16]

Others rear-engined cars included ones built by Art Malone (before working with Garlits on his), the National Speed Products Research carbuilt by Frank Huszar (Race Car Specialties) on a stunning 254 in (6,500 mm) wheelbase; driven by Chuck Tanko, it was overweight, at 1,375 lb (624 kg), and could only achieve 7.20s at 210 mph (340 km/h), never running in competition.[17]

On March 8, 1970, at Lions Drag Strip,[18] Garlits was driving Swamp Rat XIII, also called the Wynnscharger, a slingshot rail, when the vehicle suffered a catastrophic failure, and the car broke in half in front of the cockpit.[19]

Garlits returned to Pomona with a brand new mid-engined car, Swamp Rat XIV, in 1971.[20] At first, the rodding magazines considered the disadvantages of the new design "obvious". Swamp Rat XIV turned in a pass of 6.80 right off the trailer,[21] and was so successful during 1971, Garlits won two of his next three Top Fuel Eliminator titles (the Winternats and Bakersfield), and was runner-up at Lions, all in the new car..."

Last edited by oldskool; 10-15-2021 at 09:03 AM.
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