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Old 01-23-2010, 10:19 PM   #1
Stephen & Horace Johnson
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Default Copo Camaros

How many of these cars were built? they are all aluminum motors right? Is there any of them running S/SS? I just saw one go for 137k on B-J




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Old 01-23-2010, 10:39 PM   #2
GUMP
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

That was an iron block car. They built several hundred, There were 69 aluminum block cars.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Way too many Camaro experts out there??
But I'll try this one..
COPO #9560 was the All-Aluminum ZL-1 engine
COPO #9561 was the L-72 427/425HP
Cost for the COPO #9560 $7200 (Car $3100 + Engine $4100)
How many??? Numbers kind of gyrate all over the place. Possibly 69 ZL-1's.
How about the 69' Chevelle COPO L-72 427/425HP..(31 were built)
That one was easier.
PC
Does that sound right???
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:09 PM   #4
Michael Kilduff
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Stephen/Horace,

I don't claim to be a first generation Camaro expert, but I have heard and read that there might have been 900 or more 427/425hp COPO 1969camaros made. The Yenko SC COPOs were probably the most famous, and there were either 198 or 201 of the Yenkos made. There is some debate about that number officially.

Then there were other dealers getting in on the COPO 427/425 thing too...I think Baldwin Motion and Berger were a couple of them.

The 427/425 HP in a Camaro was -I think- option RPO L72 and was definately an iron block. The 427/425HP was also available in '69 chevelles.

The only aluminum block 427 available in the 69 camaro was the ZL-1 which was ordered by Fred Gibb if memory serves correct. There were 69 ZL-1 camaros produced. He had a heck of a time selling them and I think Chevrolet either bought some back or redistributed them to other dealers. I think the ZL-1 was about a $4000 option. This engine was I thin developed for CAN-AM racing back in the late 60's.

I do think there are several 427-425 HP cars in SS. I think but am not sure Brian Oakes runs that combo, and maybe Jack Sepanek and a few others, I think most of the 69 camaros running in SS/C would be the 427-425hp as that combo is a natural D, which was originally a Corvette engine package. The ZL-1 I think is a natural B car.

Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I have read a fair amount about the COPO Camaros over the years and what I wrote should be kinda sorta close. Might not be exact.

And, I too saw the B-J auction for the COPO 69 camaro.....I have never heard of an RS COPO Camaro.Most if not all of the COPOS I recall were basically base model type cars.

COPO stood for Central Office Production Order...GM had a ban on all cars besides the Corvette getting the real high HP engines. Some dealers found a loophole for lack of a better term with the COPO thing....the real job of the COPO deal was for fleet vehicles. I am thinking Vince Piggins at Chevrolet kinda worked things for some dealers to get Vette engines in non Vette cars.

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Originally Posted by Stephen & Horace Johnson View Post
How many of these cars were built? they are all aluminum motors right? Is there any of them running S/SS? I just saw one go for 137k on B-J




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Last edited by Michael Kilduff; 01-23-2010 at 11:17 PM. Reason: added on
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:27 PM   #5
Stephen & Horace Johnson
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Kilduff View Post
Stephen/Horace,

I don't claim to be a first generation Camaro expert, but I have heard and read that there might have been 900 or more 427/425hp COPO 1969camaros made. The Yenko SC COPOs were probably the most famous, and there were either 198 or 201 of the Yenkos made. There is some debate about that number officially.

Then there were other dealers getting in on the COPO 427/425 thing too...I think Baldwin Motion and Berger were a couple of them.

The 427/425 HP in a Camaro was -I think- option RPO L72 and was definately an iron block. The 427/425HP was also available in '69 chevelles.

The only aluminum block 427 available in the 69 camaro was the ZL-1 which was ordered by Fred Gibb if memory serves correct. There were 69 ZL-1 camaros produced. He had a heck of a time selling them and I think Chevrolet either bought some back or redistributed them to other dealers. I think the ZL-1 was about a $4000 option. This engine was I thin developed for CAN-AM racing back in the late 60's.

I do think there are several 427-425 HP cars in SS. I think but am not sure Brian Oakes runs that combo, and maybe Jack Sepanek and a few others, I think most of the 69 camaros running in SS/C would be the 427-425hp as that combo is a natural D, which was originally a Corvette engine package. The ZL-1 I think is a natural B car.

Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I have read a fair amount about the COPO Camaros over the years and what I wrote should be kinda sorta close. Might not be exact.

And, I too saw the B-J auction for the COPO 69 camaro.....I have never heard of an RS COPO Camaro.Most if not all of the COPOS I recall were basically base model type cars.

COPO stood for Central Office Production Order...GM had a ban on all cars besides the Corvette getting the real high HP engines. Some dealers found a loophole for lack of a better term with the COPO thing....the real job of the COPO deal was for fleet vehicles. I am thinking Vince Piggins at Chevrolet kinda worked things for some dealers to get Vette engines in non Vette cars.

So was Dick Ogle's old 69 Camaro that he used to run in SS/B a COPO version before he went to the vette? thanks for the info


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Old 01-23-2010, 11:37 PM   #6
Michael Kilduff
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Stephen/Horace,

Yes, that would have been a COPO. I'm not sure how the combos fit in the class guides back in the old days, so I can't say for sure what combo Olges may have actually ran. But I feel rather sure it would have to have been the ZL-1. I don't think the 427/425 can make it to B. The last time I checked-about a year ago-the 427/425 '69 Camaro is a natural D car. The ZL-1 is a natural B, I think it breaks at 6.56.

Also, I do recall reading in the engine specs at NHRA's site that the ZL-1 as used in SS can be either iron or aluminum block.

Last edited by Michael Kilduff; 01-23-2010 at 11:38 PM. Reason: add on
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:38 PM   #7
Dana Fitzpatrick
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

I agree with what everyone has said here on the COPO Camaros. I will add though, they did produce a very few RS 427 COPO Camaros, I own and race a Berger |Chevrolet |RS COPO. Berger sold about 40 COPO Camaros, with around 6 of them being Rally Sports. If you go to the Camaro Research Group website,click on the CRG report box and go to the report on 427 COPOs, you will find alot of good info on the COPO cars, including the BergerCOPOs
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Thanks for the clarification about the RS optioned COPO Camaros in '69 Dana. I have frequented the CRG site as it is an invaluable resource for the first generation camaro enthusiast.

The Barret Jackson auction for one of these cars-fully documented , brought what I thought was a pretty low winning bid. I was shocked, and so were some other members of www.camaros.net in the COPO Dealers forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Fitzpatrick View Post
I agree with what everyone has said here on the COPO Camaros. I will add though, they did produce a very few RS 427 COPO Camaros, I own and race a Berger |Chevrolet |RS COPO. Berger sold about 40 COPO Camaros, with around 6 of them being Rally Sports. If you go to the Camaro Research Group website,click on the CRG report box and go to the report on 427 COPOs, you will find alot of good info on the COPO cars, including the BergerCOPOs

Last edited by Michael Kilduff; 01-23-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:52 PM   #9
Chris "drooze" Wertman
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Wow....Im not a Chevy guy, nice explanation, I always wondered what certain acronyms meant (COPO) etc....I saw a "Paint Delete" car on Ebay a while back, Camaro .... Paint Delete....strange.....

Nice history, I know 300% more about the COPO than before I read it.

Cheers

Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Kilduff View Post
Stephen/Horace,

I don't claim to be a first generation Camaro expert, but I have heard and read that there might have been 900 or more 427/425hp COPO 1969camaros made. The Yenko SC COPOs were probably the most famous, and there were either 198 or 201 of the Yenkos made. There is some debate about that number officially.

Then there were other dealers getting in on the COPO 427/425 thing too...I think Baldwin Motion and Berger were a couple of them.

The 427/425 HP in a Camaro was -I think- option RPO L72 and was definately an iron block. The 427/425HP was also available in '69 chevelles.

The only aluminum block 427 available in the 69 camaro was the ZL-1 which was ordered by Fred Gibb if memory serves correct. There were 69 ZL-1 camaros produced. He had a heck of a time selling them and I think Chevrolet either bought some back or redistributed them to other dealers. I think the ZL-1 was about a $4000 option. This engine was I thin developed for CAN-AM racing back in the late 60's.

I do think there are several 427-425 HP cars in SS. I think but am not sure Brian Oakes runs that combo, and maybe Jack Sepanek and a few others, I think most of the 69 camaros running in SS/C would be the 427-425hp as that combo is a natural D, which was originally a Corvette engine package. The ZL-1 I think is a natural B car.

Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I have read a fair amount about the COPO Camaros over the years and what I wrote should be kinda sorta close. Might not be exact.

And, I too saw the B-J auction for the COPO 69 camaro.....I have never heard of an RS COPO Camaro.Most if not all of the COPOS I recall were basically base model type cars.

COPO stood for Central Office Production Order...GM had a ban on all cars besides the Corvette getting the real high HP engines. Some dealers found a loophole for lack of a better term with the COPO thing....the real job of the COPO deal was for fleet vehicles. I am thinking Vince Piggins at Chevrolet kinda worked things for some dealers to get Vette engines in non Vette cars.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:16 AM   #10
Michael Kilduff
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Default Re: Copo Camaros

Chris,

The paint delete camaros may have been 'special paint' where they would get a non camaro color. I 'think' a camaro could get any color at GM other than what was listed for Cadillacs. I read over some testimony about this not long ago by someone that is a first gen camaro expert imo. I think the auction you are talking about was the focus of the conversation. I can't recall exactly. I'm a bit delerious at the moment-all day at the track huffing race gas and tire smoke in 30 degree temps,lol.



The paint delete or special paint could have been a fleet thing, like for rental car companies or something.

Dana can probably give you a lot more COPO 427 Camaro info than I can. Cool cars for sure!

All the best,

Michael
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