1971 US Nationals class winners.

[TOM KASCH]

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https://imgur.com/k595Q2o

[oldskool]

I can provide pics of 2 of the Pontiacs on these lists.

It's the 2 H/S cars. The RU was the "Acre Maker" '71 Bird, driven by Gary Moore.

The winner was the "White Lightning" '71 Bird, driven by Max Sterling. His big Pontiacs were also named "White Lightning".

[oldskool]

I think I can now also provide a couple of pics of the I/SA winner. He's listed as: "Arnie Tofteland, LeVerne, Miss '71 Pontiac"

I ASSUME that address is wrong. I THINK he actually lived in Minnisota, NOT MIssissippi. NOT certain.

I think he drove at least one of the "Viking" Pontiacs, sponsored by Schoon Motors. I think the car on that list was a '71 Formula Firebird.

In my files, I have it listed as a '70 model, & it has H/SA on the side. BUT, for now, I'm gonna make a guess that this is the "71 Pontiac" shown as the I/SA winner. NOT positive !

The 3rd pic is of the Schoon Motors sponsored F/SA '70 GTO.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by oldskool

I think I can now also provide a pic of the I/SA winner. He's listed as: "Arnie Tofteland, LeVerne, Miss '71 Pontiac"

I ASSUME that address is wrong. I THINK he actually lived in Minnisota, NOT MIssissippi. NOT certain.

I think he drove the "Viking" Pontiacs, sponsored by Schoon Motors. I think the car on that list was a '71 Formula Firebird.

In my files, I have it listed as a '70 model, & it has H/SA on the side. BUT, for now, I'm gonna make a guess that this is the "71 Pontiac" shown as the I/SA winner. NOT positive !

The 2nd pic is of the Schoon Motors sponsored F/SA '70 GTO.

I cant find a 71 Firebird that fits I/SA=11.00 class though.
3519/300=11.73, would fall into J/SA=11.50
3519/335=10.50, perfect fit to H/SA=10.50
(The car in your picture says H/SA so that would make sense)

No 71 Firebird seems to fit I/SA=11.00
Ideas?

[oldskool]

"...No 71 Firebird seems to fit I/SA=11.00
Ideas?

Well, IF they had the '71 year correct, then the 300hp 400 would work with some of the heavier bodies.

Do you know what the exact NHRA hp factor was, for this engine at the time of that race ???

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2058

At 300hp, anything between 3600lbs & 3750lbs would fall into I/SA. 12 x 300 = 3600 12.5 x 300 = 3750 There are several '71 Pontiac bodies that could work, including the most likely GTO, depending on what the exact NHRA hp factor was for that particular body at the time of that race.

Hey, they could have swapped out the '70 front cap on the '70 Viking GTO, for a '71 GTO front cap & changed to the '71 300hp engine. Lots of Pontiac guys have done this kind of swapping around, especially on the '70-'73 Birds. I assume that any '70 or '72 GTO could be changed into a '71, with the correct parts swap.

I just noticed that you said: I/SA = 11.00. So, was that the case in 1971 ? I ask, since now: I/SA = 12.00. ???

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

Just looked in the Jr. Stock book. In '71, I/SA was indeed 11lbs/hp. Then, for '72, things REALLY got shook up.

The '72 Tons-a-Fun wagon was running I/SA in the pic below. So, I suppose some '71 wagons may could have run I/SA, at some point, in the earlier days.

Another possibility is that Arnie was driving someone else's car at that race. It has happened LOTS of times. So, we don't really know what car he was driving at that race. We just ASSUME that they had the '71 Pontiac correct. They recently had Bruce Noland listed as driving a Corvette, when he was actually driving his new '69 T/A clone.

[Stan Weiss]

I found this. Wrong year and does not show what class.





Stan

[DeuceCoupe]

Yes for 1971 I/SA=11.00 lb/hp.

I found:
1971 GTO convert, 3717/335=11.10 455/355HO
1971 Lemans 2dr HT, 3575/325=11.00 455/325 auto-only 067 cam

The 455HO was more underrated & lots of people ran it so that might make sense. IF it's the right year.

I can tell from other cars that NHRA had left the 455/335HO at its 335 rating. I dont know about the 455/325 combo, havent found any other cars running that engine. Unless I know something was factored I ASSUME it was not, back then.

Note that Fields D/S=8.50 Firebird had to be factored to at least 375hp (or even 380hp like the RA4) to fit class. So the RA2 did get factored, even up from its GTO rating of 366hp, no surprise there.

Petersen has a file on 71 Indy so there might be a picture.
I missed this thread so didnt know the car numbers until now.

Also confirms Schellenberger made SS/E in a 71 Mustang 429SCJ, WAY over-factored at 430hp, down from the 490hp the 429SCJ was factored at in SUPER-stock in 1970.

I still wonder if NHRA was hating on the 429SCJ so factored it higher after FoMoCo sandbagged so much on the 428CJ at "335hp" LOL.

[oldskool]

"...1971 Lemans 2dr HT, 3575/325=11.00 455/325 auto-only 067 cam..."

I'll just throw this in here, for whatever it might be worth.

The '71 D-port 455 #66 heads are said to be really poor flowing. Not so with the '70, '72, & '73-'74 455 D-ports. There have been quite a few of these other 455 D-port cars. But NOT the '71.

I think Ryan Schloe may have ran a '71 455 D-port Bird, for a little while. Not sure, at all. IIRC, he switched it over to a '73 455 D-port car. C.W, Hoefer still runs a '73, which has run a sec under, in the past. The NHRA hp factor was reduced to 306, in a Bird, in 2011, making it one of the most competitive 455's, IMO. At this race, Ryan's Bird is listed as a '73, running in H/SA. But all the pics I have show the '71 fenders, which have the fender vents behind the wheel opening. So, he ran at least 2 different engines.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

I see that the '71 D-port got a 5hp decrease, for a Bird, in 2019. I figure Ryan & his Dad, John requested that reduction. It has worked for some guys, for certain combos, thru the years. I could be wrong about some of this. Dan Johnson now has the former Axemaker & Reuland '71 Bird. So maybe some of those guys asked for a reduction. Dan is running it in F/SA, in the 2nd pic below. Scott Burton ran one back before he built his '70 RA4 Bird. Here he is in 2008 @ Indy, with a D/SA '71 Bird, in #19 position.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

I assume he ran a 455HO. Ryan may have, also. I can't be sure. He ran H/SA & F/SA. Since you can now run 3 different classes by changing the weight, it's sometimes hard to tell which engine a car is running. I think Brad Burton runs D/SA with his '72 455HO Bird.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by oldskool

"...1971 Lemans 2dr HT, 3575/325=11.00 455/325 auto-only 067 cam..."

I'll just throw this in here, for whatever it might be worth.

The '71 D-port 455 #66 heads are said to be really poor flowing. Not so the the '70, '72, & '73-'74 455 D-ports. There have quite a few of these other 455 D-port cars. But NOT the '71.

I think Ryan Schloe ran a '71 455 D-port Bird, for a little while. IIRC, he switched it over to a '73 455 D-port car. C.W, Hoefer still runs a '73, which has run a sec under, in the past.

I see that the '71 D-port got a 5hp decrease, for a Bird, in 2019. I figure Ryan & his Dad, John requested that reduction. It has worked for some guys, for certain combos, thru the years.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

That is helpful about those #66 heads, nothing in Stan's database about those. Guessing they flow like the 1975-76 big chamber 6H heads, they Gonkulate 10-15hp lower than most D-ports.

It looks like those 1971 #66 heads were the 1st really big (114cc chamber) heads, so maybe they hadn't figured out how to make them flow yet, or maybe never did?

So I'd bet all the more on the 71 GTO convert 455/355HO combo, I bet it would outrun that 71 Lemans 455/325 combo by 4mph or so. That's IF the I/SA=11.00 car was really a 1971.

Those sheets tend to spell out Firebird-Camaro-Mustang when that is the car. But for a midsize eg Fairlane, they'll just say "Ford", although in one case it spells out "Chevelle". So maybe just Pontiac means Lemans/GTO. Maybe.

[oldskool]

In another thread, I just saw the Jr. Stock book mentioned.

On another thread, I mentioned the fact that the book mentions almost nothing about Pontiacs in the '71 section.

This is in spite of the fact that, IF the numbers are correct, Truman Fields won D/S at Indy with an 11.83. That looks to be a very good ET, for that time period.

1971 Firebirds took winner & RU in H/S, and won I/SA.

Pontiac guys recognize 1971 as the 1st year of the 455HO engine. Quite a few of these cars were raced, by Pontiac dealers & individuals. 455HO equipped Bird, GTO & T-37 models have been raced, very successfully, by lots of racers, thru the years.

455HO powered cars have set records, won class, won div & nat events, & won div & nat points championships. I can mention big name racers who have had success with 455HO powered cars. Some are: Gary Moore, Gary & Charlene Wood, Rock Running, Mick Leiferman, Scott & Brad Burton, Scott Underhill, Lee Bannister, & Larry Maxwell, just to name a few.

Plenty of 455HO info was readily available at the time the Jr. Stock book was published, in 2012. So, why was it not mentioned ?

I have a couple of guesses. But I figure the main reason is because the author of the book actually knew very little about the history of Pontiac powered drag racing, & probably didn't inquire about it to Pontiac experts, who could have informed him. Therefore the introduction of the Pontiac 455HO engine would not mean anything to him.

I found another pic of the Max Sterling "White Lightning" Bird.