Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

After Stock qualifying @ The Rock, Bruce Noland was #22, with a 10.534, which was .866 under. Robert Holmes was #31 @ .817 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

In Stock E-1, Bruce cut a slow light & lost. But, apparently conditions were good there. He dialed 10.45 & ran 10.442, which is .958 under the 11.40 C/SA index.

There were several C/SA cars entered. Bruce had the quickest, in qualifying & elims.

https://www.nhra.com/results/2021/lu...ock-eliminator

[oldskool]

If I have already posted this, I apologize for this repeat.

For another thread, I just looked back thru my pics of '65 GTO Stockers. Was searching for any pics of 2-speed auto trans Stockers.

To my surprise, I noticed that the car in a pic I'm familiar with is of a '65 GTO that ran B/SA. That means it had to run a 2-speed auto trans.

Also, either I never noticed before, or I noticed & it didn't really register with me, but, on the rear fender are the words: "AHRA Record Holder" !

I suppose the reason I haven't used the pic much is because the car appears to have a Tempest grill, instead of a GTO grill, as well as the wrong bumper. I assumed the car probably just ran at some local outlaw track. But, obviously, at some point, it was a serious legal AHRA Stocker. It was apparently sponsored by Thompson Pontiac.

Anybody here know anything about this car ?

Stan Weiss posted this quote. Don't know where he found it. Also don't know if the car had the wrong grill & bumper on it when the record was set, or not.

"...Dick Agee drove the Thompson GTO to a national record.
Agee's official elapsed time in the 1965 GTO was 13.30 seconds..."

[oldskool]

The Vegas Dodge Nats race is underway.

In Stock Q-1, Randi Lyn Shipp is #8, in her '67 Bird. C.W. Hoefer is #18, in his '73 Bird. And Adam Strang is #21, in his '68 Bird.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

In Q-2, the Pontiacs were #9, #22, & #27.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Adam Strang & C.W Hoefer survived E-1.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

[oldskool]

Just got these first 3 pics, which were made @ a recent car show.

It's the "Limelighter" '67 GTO Stocker. It was a nat record holder, back in '68.

It was driven by Greg Murnane. He was RU in season points, in NHRA div 5, in '68.

[oldskool]

Just realized that I ID'd a pic wrong. When I saw a pic(pic #4 below) of a white '66 Knafel Pontiac, I thought it was one of the OHC cars that Knafel ran.

BUT, on closer examination of the pic, as well as noticing the same car in another pic(pic #5 below), I realized that the car is actually the original Tin Indian V '66 GTO. It has BB/S on it, in that pic. So, what class is that ?

I'd been thinking & posting that the GTO pictured with all the trophies was actually the car that won all the races.

I've also posted pics of the Knafel 2-car rig, with 2 '66 GTO's on it, with different paint schemes. Now I'm really confused.

So, were there actually 3 of these cars, all of which were raced in '66 ?

Was the trophy car actually the same car as in pic #4, just made later, when it had a different paint job ?

How many different GTO's are pictured below ?

Note: Don't count the OHC six ragtop.

[oldskool]

Recently found this pic of a '64 GTO Stocker.

It appears to be a dealer sponsored car, that ran AHRA, in the F2 B/S class. Don't have any performance numbers.

Anybody know the car ?

[oldskool]

Talkin about all the Stock rules changes back in the early '70's, on another thread, reminded me of all the different classes Truman Fields ran, in '68 Birds.

I have pics of his Birds running A, B, C, & D-Stock, as well as B/PS. He set records in several classes. Don't know how many different records he set with his Birds. He raced '68 Birds for a lot of years.

As I've probably mentioned a few times, he was my 1st Pontiac hero !

I'll sort out some pics of his Birds running different classes, & post 'em when I have time.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Talkin about all the Stock rules changes back in the early '70's, on another thread, reminded me of all the different classes Truman Fields ran, in '68 Birds.

I have pics of his Birds running A, B, C, & D-Stock, as well as B/PS. He set records in several classes. Don't know how many different records he set with his Birds. He raced '68 Birds for a lot of years.

As I've probably mentioned a few times, he was my 1st Pontiac hero !

I'll sort out some pics of his Birds running different classes, & post 'em when I have time.

Well here's another Poser for a Pontiac Guy again:

Recall the other thread, we just went over the NHRA Factors:
385hp RA2
380hp RA4
Not what I would've guessed: It would seem the RA4 would make more power:
* New heads - better intake port or so I read
* Aluminum intake - you'd think better than iron but I've read both
* Rockers - same cam but 1.65 RR vs the RA2's 1.50 RR
For me, that Gonkulates the RA4 to make 20-25hp more than the RA2.

And yet, NHRA factored the RA4 at 5hp LESS than the RA2.
Did they really run that way (ie about the same)?
The fastest RA2 car I have from back then is Fields
119.52mph record, RA2 4spd Firebird, June 1971
Compared to the fastest RA4 car
114.79mph record, RA4 auto GTO, Nemesis, May 1970
Of course you then have to correct the GTO for its weight (200 lb ~ 2mph) and being an auto trans (trap speeds about 2mph lower)
So make it 118.79mph for what we've converted to a "68 Firebird 4spd RA4". A more accurate conversion gives 118.95mph.
So
119.52mph best RA2
118.95mph best RA4
Given how sparse that old data is, I'd call that "the same", which jives with NHRA factoring the RA2=385 and RA4=380, ie "the same".

I looked in my modern NHRA class files, a couple years old.
For stock class
RA2=335-340, RA4=345 in the Firebird

RA2=365, RA4=365 in the GTO
So, within the strangeness of modern factoring, the RA2 and RA4 are still factored "about the same". It's more a function of the body than the engine.

I wondered, what is your feeling over the years, are the RA2 & RA4 about the same power or is one stronger (in the same weight car!)?

[oldskool]

"...I wondered, what is your feeling over the years, are the RA2 & RA4 about the same power or is one stronger (in the same weight car!)?"

The RA4 has to make more power, for the reasons mentioned. Bigger cam, because of the 1.65 rockers. RA4 heads are said to flow a little better. Other than that & the alum intake, as far as I can see, for all practical purposes, the engines are identical.

I'd guess the RA4 would have to make at least 15-20 more hp, just because of the 1.65 rockers. May not be that much.

In 2013, the RA2 Bird engine with auto trans was defactored down to 340hp, which makes it very competitive. That's only 7hp more than the 330hp D-port engine's NHRA 333hp factor.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

The '69 RA4 Bird engine has been 356hp, since 2007. That also seems very fair to me. But not many Pontiac guys are willing to run a set of RA4 heads on a race car. They are rare & worth lots of $$$$$. Bruce Noland now has a '69 T/A tribute Bird with the RA4 engine. He's got it down in the mid 10's, so far.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

Several guys have run quicker with RA2 Birds. But, I figure that's mostly just because the heads have been cheaper, so lots more guys have run 'em & have had years now to improve the performance.

The main reason I'm pretty sure the RA4 makes more power is because Scott Burton's '70 RA4 powered Bird was the quickest Pontiac powered Stocker ever, running real low 10's & even dipping into the 9's, in Stock legal form, but not in Stock competition. If any legal Pontiac Stocker has run quicker, I'm not aware of it.

John Schloe ran a '69 Bird with RA4 power, but ruined a head & switched over to a D-port combo.

One more thing is that although there have been quite a few '68 Super Stock Birds, John Angeles' '69 RA4 SS Bird was the first reg SS class 400 Pontiac powered car to dip into the 9's. Keri Angeles did that back in 2000. It has run in the 9.80's since that time. Don't know if any '68 SS Bird has run in the 9's or not. They're certainly capable of it, since several guys have run low 10's with '68 Bird Stockers. I suppose nobody has really tried to run 9's with a '68 SS Bird. Right now, I can't think of a single '68 Bird running reg Super Stock. Mike McKinney ran one for quite a while. Don't know it's quickest time. Marty Mckinney has it now, but painted orange.

https://www.facebook.com/mckinneymarty88

One new wrinkle which has come along in recent years is that now, you can use Edelbrock #60587 alum heads on the RA4 engines, in Super Stock.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

Don't know the current price for those heads. But I figure it is several thousand cheaper than original unported RA4 iron heads. The NHRA hp factor is 350hp. Don't know of anybody running that combo, unless the Angeles Bird is running the Edel heads. The 428 Pontiac engine, with the same Edel heads is more competitive @ 330hp, & is being run in several GT cars. But, this is the Stockers thread, so that's all I'll say about SS, here, for now.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

[DeuceCoupe]

oldskool:
Since this is a Buick link you may have missed it.
All about RA2 RA3 RA4.
Dyno of RA3 vs RA4 both with iron RA exhaust.
Probably good prep but otherwise stone stock so they say.

Then lots of tid-bits about maybe RA2 is the equal of the RA4, or reasons why not (same ones you gave) etc. Good thread, at tid-bit on each of the 5 pages.

https://v8buick.com/index.php?thread...-low-et.80595/

I've tried everything I can think of for data for the Gonkulator within reason - I still get the RA4 about 20hp stronger than the RA2.

I even looked at the intakes - here is a fun link on the 69-71 aluminum intake vs the 72 & service parts intake.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Hcvc1xtoVOMnjV



I dont see how NHRA would get factors of RA2=385 and RA4=380, but that's per Dwights old files & the cars fit (except for the mysterious Ben Wolf) so there we are.