Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?

[rognelson777]

you will never draw a large spectator group. look around where the spectators are now...no time races, no prep races, 1st to the finish line. When class racing started, before super stock was around, how many classes did you have 12? so you have 100 cars, roughly 8 cars each class running off.thats 3 rounds of heads up racing times 12. thats what spectators want to see. I think stick and auto were in the same class. do that and you will get fans. why did that stop, big bucks won the races..so keep working on these races, run a index race within it, match up cars that have same index, handicap off index after that, and best driver most under index should win

[my69396]

Are we talking about class racing or bracket racing? As much as I liked the race in St. Louis it was still a real nice bracket race. Until NHRA decides to do something for the sportsman racers we are stuck with this reality. As far as the future of our kind of racing goes, the associations that are giving us a alternative to the dog and pony show that is the NHRA now, enough good can't be said. I did like the CIC race. We could have had some interesting races for class. Maybe some payout for that would be nice. Sponsors are hard to find but would be a nice touch. I know the promoters are trying to the figure out how to make these gatherings as profitable as possible but until the racers decide that they will make the big dollar race their alternative to the NHRA show it is going to be a uphill battle.

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by my69396

Are we talking about class racing or bracket racing? As much as I liked the race in St. Louis it was still a real nice bracket race. Until NHRA decides to do something for the sportsman racers we are stuck with this reality. As far as the future of our kind of racing goes, the associations that are giving us a alternative to the dog and pony show that is the NHRA now, enough good can't be said. I did like the CIC race. We could have had some interesting races for class. Maybe some payout for that would be nice. Sponsors are hard to find but would be a nice touch. I know the promoters are trying to the figure out how to make these gatherings as profitable as possible but until the racers decide that they will make the big dollar race their alternative to the NHRA show it is going to be a uphill battle.

Handicap racing outside of the CIC or class eliminations yes, but what would you call a class race then? The races were laddered and heads up runs were enforced.....

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by thomas r polk

The point i was making why not have buy back so the promoter could make some money and put on more of this type of races

This would be the number one car count killer for A Class race. People will happily buy back into a separate last chance race. S/SS maybe a bracket race for a good portion of the race. But the true S/SS people are very different minded than strait up bracket racers.

[Markeracer]

Michael Beard had this figured out years ago with the Autometer Northern Class Nationals. Separate Stock and SS winners, class racing and special races. He brought strong Award and Contingency support as well.

https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...lass+nationals

[Steve Stickel]

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

Got admit I like it Steve! I could see rematches in the same race happening.

Eric

[REGGIE WINKLES]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

Kinda like a Slow-Pitch Softball Tournament (double elimination) the winner of the loser's side takes on the winner on the winner's bracket. But, he/she must beat the winner's side twice in order to be champion.

[Ryan Horensky]

Originally Posted by novassdude

This would be the number one car count killer for A Class race. People will happily buy back into a separate last chance race. S/SS maybe a bracket race for a good portion of the race. But the true S/SS people are very different minded than strait up bracket racers.

I'm really not sure how much of a car count killer this would be? It's obvious, some who have commented on here wouldn't attend if there were buybacks. Would be interesting to see what true impact it would have on car counts? I've spent time both bracket racing and running stock. Buybacks are a part of bracket racing. No doubt about it. I've been on the winning side, losing side, beat the same person twice, and lost to the same person twice. I realize most in the stock/super stock crowd still want to have the separation between the two forms of racing. Fuel check, scales, heads up, etc. I'm also understanding of someone promoting the race having to make enough money that they make a profit and in turn continue to put on races. If a promoter has fuel check, scales, heads-up races, but includes buybacks. This is a small compromise. Second chance races are cool, but if I were racing in a 25K to win race and I lost 1st round. The opportunity to buy back into the 25K would be more appealing to me than the opportunity to get into a second chance race.

[Gmirza]

Many interesting ideas. How about this, a full class runoff, the class winners go into one eliminator, like the old days, everybody else goes into another, then the winner of each, race for the overall win. The advantage would be the class winners race may only have 5 rounds where the other could be 7 or 8 depending on car count. Run the heads up races on Friday night in front of a crowd and the eliminators on Saturday with an all run combo race on Sunday with no tt for those who want to stick around. This would require some level of tech inspection of the class winners. This format would have something for everybody. Location and timing are the key for success, entries are needed to cover the cost. Maybe 3 races, one on each coast and one in the middle of the country.