We're Evolving!

[Lynn A McCarty]

Come on guys, you know NHRA is never going to budget for rule enforcement the way want it. So, quit waiting for someone else to do it and let's do it ourselves (Just like running heads up during practice at points races.) I suggest we consider putting more teeth into the protest/teardown rules, but NHRA must represent racer's money well.

*Racers know who and how they are cheating.
*Racers need to have their protest money well represented.
*Sanctioning body must not pick and choose. Make a standard policy and stick to it.
*Sanctioning body must represent racer's money well (or the program fails).
*Rules must be definite for protest consideration, that is, upon a protest, there must be a clear understanding of what is and what is not a violation of the rules.
*Protest fees must be raised in order to provide enough deterrent and enough funds for proper evaluations. Significant money paid to Fees paid to tech department for staffing, money for administrating, money for outside opinions, arbitration, confiscation.
*Dollar fines paid to protester and NHRA tech department (open book, not for profit) for cheaters to maintain the program.
*Did I say Sanctioning body must represent our money well?

Other thoughts/ideas invited. Put up or Shut up! (in a nice warm/fuzzy kind of way)

Lynn

PS. Racer must need our money well represented!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Lynn A McCarty

Come on guys, you know NHRA is never going to budget for rule enforcement the way want it. So, quit waiting for someone else to do it and let's do it ourselves (Just like running heads up during practice at points races.) I suggest we consider putting more teeth into the protest/teardown rules, but NHRA must represent racer's money well.

*Racers know who and how they are cheating.
*Racers need to have their protest money well represented.
*Sanctioning body must not pick and choose. Make a standard policy and stick to it.
*Sanctioning body must represent racer's money well (or the program fails).
*Rules must be definite for protest consideration, that is, upon a protest, there must be a clear understanding of what is and what is not a violation of the rules.
*Protest fees must be raised in order to provide enough deterrent and enough funds for proper evaluations. Significant money paid to Fees paid to tech department for staffing, money for administrating, money for outside opinions, arbitration, confiscation.
*Dollar fines paid to protester an NHRA tech department (open book, not for profit) for cheaters to maintain the program.
*Did I say Sanctioning body must represent our money well?

Other thoughts/ideas invited. Put up or Shut up! (in a nice warm/fuzzy kind of way)

Lynn

PS. Racer must need our money well represented!

Add one thing and I'm in.
* NHRA agrees that there will be no reprisal against Protestor!
Could you interpret the second from last one?

[Dick Butler]

Billy, I would be interested seeing a discussion starting with a set of Goals, then get input.
Many posts start with a comment and get wild because readers , read based on agenda they THINK is present, not the actual intent of the post. They answer questions not asked and deviate the discussions to where this one has been..
Start with what needs to be accomplished in your view. 2-4 things you think are needed and get some input that way...
Good Luck

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Add one thing and I'm in.
* NHRA agrees that there will be no reprisal against Protestor!
Could you interpret the second from last one?

I am fine with that bullet point Billy, however, I believe that the price of protesting needs to go significantly up. Make it really hurt if you are wrong. If you cant afford it, then convince your friends to go in with you like a class action protest If you know you are legal you should be happy for a significant portion of the protest money goes to you.

To answer your question, that bullet point was that the protestor should get paid big part of the significant fine levied to the cheater. It needs to be categorized with teeth. Not little stuff like off 1 cc or .001inches. My view something as mudane as that you tell them to fix it next time and charge them a small fine. Common Sense is the key.

This is a big boy game, and let us play with big boy sanctions. If we make it a self-funded program I think you will see NHRA join in participation. We just need to make the bean counters leave the pot of money alone. Tech and Tech only with racer representatives need to control it.

[Alan Roehrich]

I do not agree with the idea that "groups" should band together to protest someone. It already happens anyway, and there's always something ugly about it. The protest fees should not be made so high as to make it necessary or even desirable to "get a group up" to go protest a racer.

There is no need to write a rule about retaliatory protests. If you pony up to tear someone down, you should be willing to take what you dish out. You too should be legal and willing to prove it. If not, you have no business protesting. Think about it this way. Suppose there's a rule about retaliatory protests. Then there is the opportunity for preemptive protests. A guy hears someone is thinking about protesting him. All he has to do is beat the other guy to the tech trailer, and tear him down first.

I am all for real tech inspection, and real rule enforcement. I have no problem with being torn down. No one wants my "slow secrets" anyway. But it shouldn't be done so as to create ugly situations, and it does not have to be.

I'm not convinced that the protest fees are very far out of line right now anyway. But here is an idea. Make the fine for a serious infraction at least equal to the protest fee. If a protest is filed, and the protested racer found to be guilty of a real infraction, the tech group gets 1/2 the protest fee, and the fine, and racer filing the protest gets the other 1/2 of the protest fee returned. But if the protested racer is found to be legal, he gets 1/2 the protest fee, and the tech department gets the other 1/2.

The problem with all of this is still that NHRA management would still have ultimate control, since it happens at their event. And they'd have the ultimate liability. So this ain't real likely, either.

[greg fulk]

Here's MY take on "evolving"....WE ARE GETTING LAZY! point 1) where is "our future racers" coming from? Jr. dragsters. Soo when was the last time you saw Jr's running heads-up? where is their best fit? S/C & T/D that's where their @ home & if they/their parents don't have enough money to run those classes then they run somewhere else( unless they come from a S/SS family) Point 2) my dad has ALL my old stuff from my silver car....my best passes in it were .8 under....@ Columbus the car wouldn't run the index! why because he's lazy! (i luv him he's my dad BUT) it's like dad you going to put ice in the cool can? no dosen't do anything (.04 i tested it) dad how much air you got in the front tires? 20lbs so I don't go red! dad you need to flat foot this thing for it to run fast. (4000 on starting line) no I'm leaving @ 2100 so I can hit the tree! dad that header of yours is junk....i gave $450 for this i'm running it! i don'r give a **** if you paid $1000 for it's .15 slower (in the 1/8th i tested it) then the 6 into 1 ... & the list goes on & on! We as Americans (in general) want things to be "easy" class racing is not a high school sport....it dosen't have to be fair...& it's not going to be!

[Billy Nees]

There is no need to write a rule about retaliatory protests. If you pony up to tear someone down, you should be willing to take what you dish out. You too should be legal and willing to prove it. If not, you have no business protesting. Think about it this way. Suppose there's a rule about retaliatory protests. Then there is the opportunity for preemptive protests. A guy hears someone is thinking about protesting him. All he has to do is beat the other guy to the tech trailer, and tear him down first.

Alan, I'd agree to take my stuff apart as part of a protest against another racer. BUT, you can't tell me you haven't seen reprisals down the road. I shouldn't complain because for the amount of abuse I give the tech dept. I still like to think that they deal with me in a civil manner. BUT, I have been "picked on" a time or two over the years.



I am all for real tech inspection, and real rule enforcement. I have no problem with being torn down. No one wants my "slow secrets" anyway. But it shouldn't be done so as to create ugly situations, and it does not have to be.

Agreed, BUT REAL tech inspection and REAL rule enforcement requires all of the rules to be applied to all of the racers equally, east coast to west coast, north to south and if a tech inspector has a business or social aquaintence with a racer then he should excuse himself from the decision making process for the racer concerned.





The problem with all of this is still that NHRA management would still have ultimate control, since it happens at their event. And they'd have the ultimate liability. So this ain't real likely, either.[/QUOTE]

BUT it is also our event as we paid for and we have the right to expect a safe, fair and equitible environment!

[Pat Cook]

Ya know, If a person reads these post it sound likes S/SS is a real mess.

I started racing my stocker as a bracket car and evolved it into a stocker. I always hear "if you don't like the way the eliminator is going, go back to bracket racing" and then there is the "S/SS is just glorified bracket racing" maybe, but bracket racing is really just about the driver and winning, of course the car has to be set up as well.

But bracket racing in stock is a lot different, simply due to the fact that you are always trying to improve / evolve your car, and to me that is what makes it fun. I have not spent the money on my car like a lot of the cars in my class have (F/SA) and most of the time I am in the middle of the pack as far as qualifying, just means I need to spend more money?

Some say "find a car / combo" that has not been run before and turn it into a killer" I suppose, but that usually mean spending a lot of time at the track. The closest track to my home is a 110 miles, which means roughly 5 hrs of towing time, and three passes at the test and tune. And beside I like my old 67 Ford Fairlane. I enjoy the heads up part of the race, I even won a round of heads up racing once, but most of the time I get my but t handed to me, and for now that's OK as long as I can still race in the main event, I will spend the money to go to the races. And maybe I will get some Obama money to spend on my hot rod?.......I mean ACORN was willing to front a hooker in a house?

So if S/SS were to be evolved into a heads up eliminator, after about 2 years of a handful of cars winning (most money spent on their cars) how many cars would be coming to the races? and isn't this how S/SS evolved to were it is now? simply due to the lack of participation.

I remember when AHRA ran that type of a racing format, and it died

And really, will S/SS ever be the main event? not unless we are jumping our cars, crashing, ....I like it, but I don't think the younger generation has the same feeling about it, what do I know, maybe we need a marketing guru to tell us what we need to do to get spectator draw, or maybe we should just race and evolve as needed? and they will come, kinda a "field of dreams approach"?......

[Billy Nees]

I'm bored. I just dug this up from the ClassRacer archives. Not much has changed in the last dozen years other than the names on the posts.

Edit; It's ironic (moronic?) that I would post "not much has changed" in a thread entitled "We're Evolving".
Lots has changed in the past dozen years when it comes down to how we race and what we're allowed to race (get away with). What hasn't changed is the lively discussions.

[B Parker]

Billy considering how bad the last 12 years could have been. I can see we have an easy 12 more. Thats more than I need. BP