Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers

[oldskool]

I suppose that because I've seen so many Pontiac bodies, that came with a Pontiac engine, but were later swapped over to Chevy power, I especially like the little Cobalts, with 428 Pontiac power.

Robert Cruzen & Todd Frantz have both won class at Indy, with these little cars. The only pic I have of Todd's car even still shows it to have big Chevrolet letters on the windshield. Don't know if those letters were on the car after the Pontiac engine was installed or not.

Hey, maybe I can say it like some of the LS guys do on the car forums. It's a corporate GM engine. Hey, Pontiac V8 engines WERE used in some other GM brands. And, some 2nd gen Birds had Buick, Olds & Chevy engines as options, some years. So, maybe Buick, Olds, Pontiac & Caddy are all corporate GM engines, huh ? So, as long as it's a GM engine in a GM body, it's OK, right ?

Did a little more digging. It appears that the Todd Frantz Cobalt is the former "Indiana Johns" car, which won class at the 2014 US Nats, with a 346 engine. So, I don't know when or if Todd bought the car, nor who installed the 428, or when it was installed. Anybody have more info on this little Cobalt ? It appears that Todd may have driven one or more cars for Irvin Johns. I'm always interested in how a quick Chevy powered Chevy becomes a quick Pontiac powered Chevy !

http://mrsuperstock.blogspot.com/sea...portsNationals

[Mike Jones]

My machinist friend passed away unexpectedly over the summer. His widow sold off most of his equipment. Customers have received their parts back and the shop is almost empty. I don't know exactly what is left, but there is a cache of Pontiac stuff unclaimed. If anyone is interested, PM me.
Mike
A114

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Hey, Pontiac V8 engines WERE used in some other GM brands. And, some 2nd gen Birds had Buick, Olds & Chevy engines as options, some years. So, maybe Buick, Olds, Pontiac & Caddy are all corporate GM engines, huh ? So, as long as it's a GM engine in a GM body, it's OK, right ?

Somebody passed off a bunch of jive with this "corporate engine" stuff.
I'm still looking for the Chevrolets that came with real Pontiac V8's, or Buick, Olds V8's, for that matter. Also, Cads that came in anything else other than a Caddy?

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Somebody passed off a bunch of jive with this "corporate engine" stuff.
I'm still looking for the Chevrolets that came with real Pontiac V8's, or Buick, Olds V8's, for that matter. Also, Cads that came in anything else other than a Caddy?

Yeah, IIRC, the 1st time I heard the term was back in the early '80's, when the 301 Pontiac engine was no longer offered in a Pontiac Firebird. Instead, the 305 sbc was offered. Some would call it a "corporate engine" because it was used in several different GM brands.

But, to me & other old school Pontiac guys, the 3rd gen Birds were nothing but dolled up Camaros, that looked better. But, since there is room for a Pontiac V8, in a 3rd gen Bird, they make great Pontiac powered GT cars !

I assume that most here know about the late 2nd gen Bird engine options. Besides Pontiac engines, there were the Buick V6, Olds 403, & Chevy 305, just to name a few. Earlier Pontiacs had a Chevy inline six, and a 307 Chevy. Both Olds & Buick 350's were also used in '70's Pontiac models.

I don't have a clue about Caddy engines, except that a 472 Caddy engine pulled my GTO, by tow-bar, to the tracks, in 1973. And, my trans guy told me that the TH400 sprag I needed was a GM part designed for, but not limited to, TH400's used behind 500 cube Caddy engines.

In '79, the Pontiac 301 was used in several Buick models. I don't know ALL the different engine options in ALL GM models in ALL years. But I think I can safely say that SOME GM engines were used in several different GM brands. Is that a statement that all here can agree with ???

Well hey, many of you guys already know all this stuff. So, the term "corporate engine" has been around for a long time & obviously means different things to different people. That's all I have to say about corporate engines.

[oldskool]

The main reason why it's even worth a look at SS Pontiacs, is because the Pontiac engines currently used in SS racing, only span a 12 year period, from 1967 Thru 1978.

Those are the years the Pontiac 400 engine was available with an auto trans. There was a '79 400. But it came only with a 4-speed manual trans. 350, 428, & 455 engines were available in some of those years.

In contrast, Ford, Chevy, & Mopar brands still have cars & engines that can run SS. So, how many years do they have to choose from ? LOTS of SS cars are now being run, which were not considered high performance cars, at all.

Anyhow, current Pontiac V8 powered SS cars, are definitely in a minority. So, anyone choosing to run Pontiac V8 power, is very limited in their choice of competitive engines. I think the GT class is one of the best things that has ever happened, for Pontiac powered racing. It definitely put the 428 into the game. A '69 GP is probably the only 428 powered body anybody would have ever considered using for a SS drag car. The other bodies were really big & heavy. But, with the GT rules, the 428 can be used in lots of smaller, lighter GM bodies. 455's can also be used in smaller, lighter bodies, than those they came in.

[oldskool]

So, for you guys who were into racing in the early & mid '60's, what year did the FX cars morph into what would later be "Funny" cars.

Maybe a better way to say it would be, what was the 1st year that Stock, Super Stock, & the FX class, were 3 completely separate classes.

I suppose this is the best explanation of those early '60's Stock/SS/FX classes I've ever read.

https://www.facebook.com/FCRMotorspo...0684906992287/

But I don't know the exact year when roller cams and/or aftermarket intakes and/or big tires were made legal in SS cars.

This excerpt from a book says that 1967 is the year that NHRA started the new Super Stock class, which allowed any cam, any intake of the same configuration as factory, and any size tire that would fit in the original wheel well.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Tt...0class&f=false

Before that, SS was still a part of the Stock class. But this is online info. So, from you guys who were there, is '67 the year you remember this happening ? By chance, did any of you guys field a roller cam SS car during the 1967 season ? If it wasn't yours, did you have any roll in racing one of these cars ? If the answer is no, to the previous questions, do any of ya'll remember the 1st roller cam SS car you personally knew some facts about ?

Trying to get some 1st hand, eyewitness accounts of some of these very early roller cam SS cars, from the late 60's. If '67 was actually the very 1st year of this new class, there were plenty of Musclecars being sold, which could have been used. Hey, the '67 Birds & Camaros are the 1st that come to mind. Don't know how many Birds were built. But I figure there were LOTS of '67 Camaros set up to run the new SS class.

I have to believe that Gay Pontiac fielded one of the 1st '67 Super Stock Birds. Stan Long Pontiac also had one that set a record.

Only only '67 SS Bird I know of, in recent years, belongs to Joel Larkin. That reminds me of a question I've already ask. What was the 1st season in which the narrowed rear ends, tubs, & big tires were legal ? And what about wheelie bars ?

[oldskool]

Also don't know who fielded the 1st competitive '68 SS Bird.

Don't know of one that has been actively racing, in recent years. Chris Stephenson ran his '68 Stocker, in SS some. But I won't count that one.

Have picks of a couple of John Angeles/Pete McCarthy '68's. May be the same car, with 2 different paint jobs. Don't know when it was last raced.

And, I think I've shown pics of the Mike Mckinney '68. Have it in red, & blue. Assume it's the same car. Best time I could find for the car, Roy was driving. Ran a 10.41, which was more than .500 under, but missed the '99 Indy field.

So, any know who may have ran one in SS, in the '60's.

I suppose the Yellow Bird is the only small tire '68 SS Bird I have pics of.

[oldskool]

Found some pics of an early '70's A-body, raced by the White Bros. It is said that they switched out the front body parts, so they could run it as a '71 T-37, a '71 GTO, & a '72 GTO. They also ran a car in Stock. So I don't know if they had just one car, or several.

Anyhow, they won class at Indy, with a Super Stocker.

[oldskool]

Came across this, which is a sad story. This is about a '67 SS Bird which I just mentioned.

Tony Knieper worked at Stan Long Pontiac. He was racing a '67 Bird, in SS/FA. Set a record somewhere, then was class RU, to Dick Landy, at the Winter Nats.

"...The record was set at Columbus. Knieper won class at the 1968 AHRA Winternationals and was runner up for ss/fa class at the NHRA Winternationals. He went 12.35 at 113 against Dick Landy's 12.23..."

Then, on their way to a div race, he & a younger brother were killed in a wreck.

[oldskool]

After doing quite a bit of research, as of right now, I think the winningest Super Stock Pontiac A-body, in the modern era, must be the Sonny Ray '72 GTO.

For the SS Bird, I'll have to choose the Ken Shawver owned '78, that he & Monte Howard drove.

For the Pontiac powered GT car, it has to be Phil Monteith's Hatari, because Peter Biondo won so many races in it.

If ya'll have different choices than me, please post that info & tell why you made your choice.

As for back in the '60's, I don't know. Arnie Beswick did lots of racing. But he got off into match racing & some wild funny car type rides. So, up thru 1970, which Pontiac would ya'll say did the most winning in what could be considered Super Stock ?

And, what about nat records ? What Pontiac powered SS car has set the most nat records ? Carroll Warling's '74 A-body is the only record holder I know of this century. Any others ?

I assume there were several back in the old days. Seems I remember seeing a string of years that one big wagon held the record. I'll post the pics again, & ya'll can tell us if you know of a Pontiac that set more records, or held a record longer.