Musclecars That Should Have Been Made

[Paul Ceasrine]

X-Tech Man,
Thanks for the correction, I was only guessing on the 302 Z-28
cross-ram engines.
Stricklers red 68' Z-28 SS/F was the 'hot ticket'.
Now for a Mopar question, in 1969 was anyone running 69' 440 Cuda's in C/SA with success. I found a Jim Rothmeier out of Laporte, Iowa
running a Chuck Ostrich prepped car. What was the main problem, the car couldn't hook-up with 7" slicks, and the nose-heavy 440 in the car?
Paul

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

X-Tech Man,
Thanks for the correction, I was only guessing on the 302 Z-28
cross-ram engines.
Stricklers red 68' Z-28 SS/F was the 'hot ticket'.
Now for a Mopar question, in 1969 was anyone running 69' 440 Cuda's in C/SA with success. I found a Jim Rothmeier out of Laporte, Iowa
running a Chuck Ostrich prepped car. What was the main problem, the car couldn't hook-up with 7" slicks, and the nose-heavy 440 in the car?
Paul

The Direct Connection "Bible" (factory race tech bulletins by Larry Sheppard primarily) gave a dozen or so reasons why the B & RB A-bodies could not be run successfully given the parts and suspension of the day.
Neil Smedley and I built a 440 '69 Dart w/ Super Stock springs, 9" slicks and a 12.5:1 bracket engine with an 8" ATI convertor back in the early '80's, just to see if it could be done. The car was a former G/SA 340 car so other than the engine, all stock legal. We instantly proved ma MOPAR wrong as the car hooked and I enjoyed my first wheelie. And it wasn't a little one either. We later put a equally built 383 in the car. Solid mid 11 second car and traction was never an issue.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

The Direct Connection "Bible" (factory race tech bulletins by Larry Sheppard primarily) gave a dozen or so reasons why the B & RB A-bodies could not be run successfully given the parts and suspension of the day.
Neil Smedley and I built a 440 '69 Dart w/ Super Stock springs, 9" slicks and a 12.5:1 bracket engine with an 8" ATI convertor back in the early '80's, just to see if it could be done. The car was a former G/SA 340 car so other than the engine, all stock legal. We instantly proved ma MOPAR wrong as the car hooked and I enjoyed my first wheelie. And it wasn't a little one either. We later put a equally built 383 in the car. Solid mid 11 second car and traction was never an issue.

The 9 inch tires made the difference. I ran on 7 inch tires up thru the end of 1971 and it was tough even with a small block Vette.

[hemicop]

Well, thanks for the answewrs regarding the x-ram Camaros, but WHY? Enough were built/availible and yes, I never saw one. I always thought they'd make a good car to go against the 396/325hp cars. Back in NY wwhere I grew up I was privvy to see Scott Schafiroff's Z/28 do real well in AHRA's GT classes (Truppi-Kling motor as I recall) and always wondered how it'd do with an x-ram. Motion Performance had a "Z/30" package as I recall that ran a x-ram. I only saw one of these things & the car (a Camaro) ran solid mid-11s---- not bad at all back in the day for a street smallblock.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by hemicop

Well, thanks for the answewrs regarding the x-ram Camaros, but WHY? Enough were built/availible and yes, I never saw one. I always thought they'd make a good car to go against the 396/325hp cars. Back in NY wwhere I grew up I was privvy to see Scott Schafiroff's Z/28 do real well in AHRA's GT classes (Truppi-Kling motor as I recall) and always wondered how it'd do with an x-ram. Motion Performance had a "Z/30" package as I recall that ran a x-ram. I only saw one of these things & the car (a Camaro) ran solid mid-11s---- not bad at all back in the day for a street smallblock.

It (the X Ram) was never assembly line installed. If you ordered the X Ram it came in the trunk. Either the dealer installed it or you did the job yourself. No over the counter parts were allowed in stock which is why the 389 SD Pontiacs (1960-1961) were outlawed and dropped from the class guide. I bought a new British Racing Green with white stripes, spoiler package and console with gages, and black interior 68 Z-28 and went over the order sheet with the salesman. You could also order rear disc brakes and Doug headers which also came in the trunk. The cowl cold air air cleaner was also an option but it was installed from the factory. The NHRA stock rules were more restrictive back then. The stockers had to come with a transmission, rear end, and be fully assembled on a standard assembly line which is not like what we see today. . The headers were an allowed add on in stock so you could use the GM parts or get them from another supplier.

[X-TECH MAN]

By the way....the Bronze colored Z-28 that Jerry McNish (sp?) owns and used to race in E/S before building his new record holder is the real deal Dave Strickler "Old Reliable" World Champion SS/F Camaro if you didnt already know that. He is without a doubt the most knowledgeable Z-28 guy on the planet in my opinion.

[hemicop]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

It (the X Ram) was never assembly line installed. If you ordered the X Ram it came in the trunk. Either the dealer installed it or you did the job yourself. No over the counter parts were allowed in stock which is why the 389 SD Pontiacs (1960-1961) were outlawed and dropped from the class guide. I bought a new British Racing Green with white stripes, spoiler package and console with gages, and black interior 68 Z-28 and went over the order sheet with the salesman. You could also order rear disc brakes and Doug headers which also came in the trunk. The cowl cold air air cleaner was also an option but it was installed from the factory. The NHRA stock rules were more restrictive back then. The stockers had to come with a transmission, rear end, and be fully assembled on a standard assembly line which is not like what we see today. . The headers were an allowed add on in stock so you could use the GM parts or get them from another supplier.

Thanks! I kinda suspected that was the reason & I knew about the headers & brakes being in the trunk when ordered. BUt as you mwntioned, the ehaders were allowed so I don't see the difference between allowing a bolt-on factory exhaust system & a bolt-on factory intake system, but I guess it's just the way it was back then. Personally, I think they should go back to alot of the old Stock rules..........

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by hemicop

Thanks! I kinda suspected that was the reason & I knew about the headers & brakes being in the trunk when ordered. BUt as you mwntioned, the ehaders were allowed so I don't see the difference between allowing a bolt-on factory exhaust system & a bolt-on factory intake system, but I guess it's just the way it was back then. Personally, I think they should go back to alot of the old Stock rules..........

The rear disc brakes were installed at the factory on the assembly line if you ordered them. The X Ram intake and headers came in the trunk if you ordered them.

[Paul Ceasrine]

X-Tech Man,
I tried to race my 69' 440 Cuda back in 73'/74' (Pure-stock era).
No headers and grooved street-cheater slicks. I did a 360 coming off the line at Dover Drag Strip. Nearly wiping out the brand-new Chrondek-tree. After about a half-dozen or so line-launches, I finally figured out that I had to feather the car off the line for about 80' or so, before punching it.
It still got out-of-shape.
Couldn't find anybody running them in C/SA.
Paul

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

X-Tech Man,
I tried to race my 69' 440 Cuda back in 73'/74' (Pure-stock era).
No headers and grooved street-cheater slicks. I did a 360 coming off the line at Dover Drag Strip. Nearly wiping out the brand-new Chrondek-tree. After about a half-dozen or so line-launches, I finally figured out that I had to feather the car off the line for about 80' or so, before punching it.
It still got out-of-shape.
Couldn't find anybody running them in C/SA.
Paul

I remember the "Good Ole Days" 1961-1966. The 7 inch caslers, etc. were next to nothing and track prep was non existant except for sweeping. I remember the 409,s, Max wedges, 406 Ford,s not getting on the throttle all the way until they were 60 to 80+ feet off the line. Wheel stands and wheelie bars were NOT the order of the day.