Misconception on a slow stocker winning

[Michael Beard]

It was Tim Griffith in the Cavalier. He won multiple Pro-Am events, and missed the IHRA World Championship by just 2 points. (part of the season, he drove the Koopman's 9-seater wagon. X/SA?)

Congrats to Philbilly for another final round on Sunday at the Mt. Park Pro-Am... two wins and a r/u in the Borrowed Money! Awesome weekend, bud!

[Dennis P Chapman]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

It was Tim Griffith in the Cavalier. He won multiple Pro-Am events, and missed the IHRA World Championship by just 2 points. (part of the season, he drove the Koopman's 9-seater wagon. X/SA?)

Congrats to Philbilly for another final round on Sunday at the Mt. Park Pro-Am... two wins and a r/u in the Borrowed Money! Awesome weekend, bud!

Michael I knew it was Tim someone just had the last name wrong thanks for helping me out. Lol

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Bill Drevo won S/E at the 1985 Suffolk Divisional with a Z-24 Citation.

(had to join this thread ...sooner or later)

One slight correction to you Mark...Chevrolet only used the Z24 logo for the Cavalier. The Citation performance car was dubbed "X11". However great job by Bill Drevo, and by all of the fwd stocker winners from the past century....

What happened last century was great, but how about this century? There's been many close calls, but who's won a divisional event (or an IHRA national since Y2K), because there's definitely been no NHRA fwd stocker winner yet), this century? Alot more happened in the 80's, and 90's than I realized, but how about since Y2K?

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by ss wannabee

Billy...you're absolutely CORRECT....my apologies...please delete my last posts.

(That's what I get for getting "old"....BRAIN FADE!)

But I do believe the RPO Code Z-11 was used after 1963 in various Chevy models....

I believe the Z11 RPO Code you're referring to being re-used by Chevy, has been more recently dubbed on Corvette models? If that's true, then that's a compliment even the great Z11 "mystery motor" wouldn't mind sharing....

[bill dedman]

Gary,

I believe the "mystery motor" was the canted-valve, new head-design, N.A.S.C.A.R. motor that we came to know as the 396/427/454 engine. The Z-11 was a 409 on steroids; angled top-deck block; a "combustion-chambers-in-the block" design with some really good-flowing heads and an intake manifold, the design of which emulated a tunnel-ram (raised carbs, with vertical runners delivering the charge to the heads.)

A VERY powerful engine...

The cranks may have had similar bearing parameters, and the bore-center spacing was the same, but they were two very different motors in terms of the top end.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Gary,

I believe the "mystery motor" was the canted-valve, new head-design, N.A.S.C.A.R. motor that we came to know as the 396/427/454 engine. The Z-11 was a 409 on steroids; angled top-deck block; a "combustion-chambers-in-the block" design with some really good-flowing heads and an intake manifold, the design of which emulated a tunnel-ram (raised carbs, with vertical runners delivering the charge to the heads.)

A VERY powerful engine...

The cranks may have had similar bearing parameters, and the bore-center spacing was the same, but they were two very different motors in terms of the top end.

Bill, I may stand corrected on that (even though I thought I read in a performance book and/or Chevy performance magazine that Z11 was also associated with the 427 engine that was popular in the '63 Chevies of that great era, but I'm no authority on that). However, the important thing is that Z11 wasn't associated in any way shape or form with the Citation...it was the X11, which I know of for sure. There was also a Z26 offering which was connected with the now defunct Beretta, or the Z34 from the Lumina.

[bill dedman]

Gary,

You are correct that the 1963 427 Chevy engine WAS the Z-11. I should have made that more clear when I said it was a "409 on steroids." It was a 409 DESIGN that was enlarged to 427 cubic inches for the 1963 limited-edition "lightweight" drag package that Chevy built for NHRA racing. There were some problems getting them homologated; not enough cars were built before the G.M. front office issued an edict that killed the racing programs at both Chevy and Pontiac, resulting in not enough cars being built to qualify their legal status as Super Stockers, so they had to run these cars (the Z-11 full-size Chevys with the 409-style 427-inch motors, and the Pontiac 421 Tempests (dunno about the swiss-cheese Catalinas) as F/X cars. No matter; they were all still really, really tough!

The "mystery motor" was not included in any of the drag racing activities that I ever heard of, in 1963. It was a canted-valve, 396-style "semi-hemi" whose excellent basic design is STILL making its mark in Pro Stock, Stock, and Super Stock today. It was a NASCAR item ONLY, in the beginning. Who'd have dreamed that it was so good that it would still be a factor in NHRA racing, virtually fifty years later?

Hope this clears up the some of the murk about the two distinctly different big blocks Chevy was developing in 1963. They were both formidible!

[GarysZ24]

They were both formidible![/QUOTE]

x2 for that Bill, and I often wonder what would've been in the Stock/Super Stock wars of the brands, if only that "409 on steroids 427 Chevy, and it's 421 Tempest cousin would've had the numbers built they needed to be a threat to the Savoy's, Belvedere's, and Coronets and their hemi or Max Wedge offerings???

[bill dedman]

Gary,

It would have been VERY interesting... that's for sure!

[GarysZ24]

x2 for that Bill....