Black Tuesday?

[bill dedman]

Dick Butler said, " I cannot get on the court with Micheal Jordan."

I have news for you, Dick; when you pull into the opposing lane from Dan Fletcher, Peter Biondo, ~either~ of the Lang bros., Edmond Richardson, or David Rampy (and, yes, I have left our a few,) you ARE on the court with "Michael Jordan."

It's a lot like allowing Mike Tyson to box Golden Gloves... practically impossible for someone who, because of circumstances; financial, or otherwise, someone, who can't accrue seat time (or, equipment) equal to someone who races for a living, to win. It's possible to beat those guys, yes, but the odds are with them.

This, in an Eliminator that, at least at its inception, was created for the hobby racer, not the professional. Stock and S/S are Sportsman Eliminators, and as such, were never intended to be the venue of the professional. NHRA has Eliminators for professional racers (Pro Stock, T/'F and F-C,) and they are called "Professional" categories.

Neither Stock, nor Super Stock is one of them.

Yet, these "Pro-Sportsman" racers are not doing ANYTHING that could in any shape or form, be construed as, illegal. This situation has evolved to its current status through the progression of how the rules are interpreted, how the game is played, and what parameters are followed in the prosecution of the national and LODRS races, and their many regulations.

It's ALL legal, and above-board.

Someone said, "Making money this way is not easy."

That is way understated. As we all know, there are, by actual count, 347,218,963 ways to lose a drag race, and only one, to win it. You have to be a psychologist, chemist, engineer, statistician, prophet, athlete, tactician/strategist, and about a hundred other things to win a race, PLUS have lady luck firmly on your side.

I can't IMAGINE trying to make my living that way....... all things considered, it seems impossible!

But, there are people doing it.

Someone said you can't legislate this "Pros in a Sportsman Eliminator" away; it's here to stay..." or, something similar.

That may be true, because you really can't define a Sportsman vs. Pro in any way I can imagine. Who's to say whether these racers literally make their living on the race track??? You gonna subpoena their W-2's??? I don't think so...

The only idea I ever heard that seemed feasible was one I read on here, a couple of years sgo, and I'm not sure whether it would even have any chance of working, but that was to limit entries in such a way that everyone racing was limited to ONE CAR per race, eliminating a 2-car effort. That would drop the odds of anyone winning (if they ran, say, a Stocker and a Super Stocker) by 50-percent, wouldn't it?

I don't know anything about math, but that SOUNDS probable, to me.

That one change might make it unattractive for an alleged "Pro" to run a "tour" of national events and points races, if only one car per event, were allowed.

Of course, NHRA would never go for it; they like the entry fees from the so-called "Pros" as much as anyone else's.... and we all know that they're all for a level playing field as long as it doesn't cost them a plugged nickel.

So, we'll very likely never to see such a limit.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.....

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

I had an interesting Phone call to straighten out the rule change. We are correct now a car can run further under before getting hit. Further under the OLD index too.
The topic turned to "what about the guy who wants to run who cannot afford an AH car like me( no I cannot and do not have one). What about the guy who wants to or by lack of money HAS TO do his own porting, assembly etc.. ? Shouldnt he be able to enter and race in Stk and SS?

Like all sports there are qualifying criteria to play. I cannot get on the court with Micheal Jordan. I cannot play with Favre next week. Why? I cannot make the cut, physically. You play your sport by making an entry level of competitiveness.either physically, mentally or financially.

It is my opinion Stk and SS are not a Welfare eliminator.
.. Work on your stuff and reach a level of competitiveness in our rules to EARN the right to compete. I think if you can do it yourself to run on NHRA Index in Stk and SS more power to you. If not ,you should be proud of what you CAN do skill wise and money wise and accept others can exceed your levels just like I accept Favre and Jordan as above my level of skills and respect them...

Dick, I'm sure that you weren't addressing the post that I made. You don't want to argue with my facts. I'm not trying to run a AH car. I do however do as much of my own "stuff" as I can. I think that my personal accomplishments (of which I'm very proud) should allow me to enter and race in S and SS.
I have for years played with the "Favres and Jordans" of my sport with a fair amount of success physically, mentally and financially!
No, S and SS should NOT be a "Welfare" eliminator but it also shouldn't be an eliminator for "Pompuss Asses" either.
I and the great numbers of other racers out there that DO work on their stuff have more than earned the "right to compete".
What YOU don't get is through the years certain racers have gone to NHRA and gotten replacement and superceded parts made legal because they what, "can't find the right parts"! Well if they can't find the right parts to build a "Stocker" then shouldn't THEY be excluded from racing Stock and be made to run Brackets? There's nothing wrong with Brackets, maybe they just don't have the time, the money or the knowledge to get them. Maybe they should have picked a different combo that they had the time, money or knowledge to race instead of asking for HP back.
Are you starting to see a pattern developing here? " Hey, I can't physically, mentally, financially, be competitive"! "Could you please (NHRA) give me all of the things that I need to be"? "Hey, I'm going real fast now and I don't want to get my combo factored could you change things for me again"? "Oh, screw the guys that have been doing this by the rules all of their lives, they probably are too senile, unfirm or broke to do it anymore anyway"!
Ya know Dick, when I write this down this way it kind of looks like the Democrats have infiltrated my sport and YOU are sticking up for them!

[BlueOval Ralph]

This is the way it should be WIN CLASS to race the elminator!!!!! It WILL seperate the men from the boys!!!

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Just a question here.....What ever happened to.....you win class and you got to play.....style of racing? If you lost out in class you went home. End of the qualifying B.S. You had to be BAD and a good driver to win class. Less cars in the eliminator so NHRA could finish the race earlier like they want. NHRA could use the AHFS after each NATIONAL EVENT and by 6 months to a year the HP ratings "should" be where they belong because if you wanted to race in the eliminator you had better not be playing games at 1000 ft. . Not a suggestion.....just a question.
P.S. And EVERY class winner or fast car was torn down for certification before any adjustment from the AHFS was put into effect. To much work for the downsized tech crew I guess so the need for LESS seperate classes would pop up to help ease the work load. There is no easy answer.

[bill dedman]

ED SED: To be honest all do not play by the same rules .

BILL SED: Well, that's a no-brainer; did I say they did? Did I even ADDRESS "favoritism"? I don't think I did.. In short, I don't know what that comment has to do with anything in my post. Maybe you could explain what I wrote that elicited that statement.

ED SED: When NHRA outlawed some MSD box's a while back do you think anyone was using one ?

BILL SED: Again, I puzzled by what might have caused you to ask that question. If nobody was using one, why would NHRA outlaw the box??

ED ASKED: Do you think some may have used a delay box before it was ok ?

Bill SED: I don't know. Do you? It wouldn't suprise me, ala the "Matty Box" debacle...

ED ASKED: Do you think people might have used a lifter that was not legal at one time ?

BILL SED, Probably.

ED ASKED: Have you ever seen a 904 transmission out of a jeep with a Chevy bolt pattern .

BILL SED: No.

ED ASKED: Do you think anyone ever put a C4 trans behind a big block for before it was legal .

BILL SED: Yes...

ED SED: I'd keep going but my fingers are getting sore . Some call it thinking outside the box and some call it cheating but not everyone plays the same game .

BILL SED: You didn't address one single issue I raised in my post. I wrote NOTHING about cheating...

If I did, please quote it for me.

In short, I am amazed at the content of your post; it sounds like the answer to a question that nobody asked.

Insofar as the "cheating" references, I have no idea what your point was. In response to your transmission references, yes, I knew of a 340 Duster that ran a disguised 904 for YEARS (held national records in S/.S and won 2 national events) and never got caught...
Had another friend who ran a C-4 behind a 429 in Stock for several years before it was legal.... and never got caught...

That stuff,in my opinion says a lot more about the quality (or, lack of same) of NHRA Tech inspections than it does about the racers in question.

Now, MY fingers (both of them) are getting tired... This "cheating" bidness could go on and on, into the night, but

I NEVER SAID A WORD ABOUT "CHEATING"!!!

Whose post were you reading?????

Have a more comprehensively-acute day....

Have a nice day

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by blueoval ralph

this is the way it should be win class to race the elminator!!!!! It will seperate the men from the boys!!!

thank you !

[Billy Nees]

Hey Terry, I'm all for it! Where are you going to get the manpower to police it!

[art leong]

Wooo Hooo
Cat Fight (hiss hiss) LOL

[Bryan Broaddus]

John Stock,

Wicked Crazy with that purple people eater!

Hope to see you soon!

[STK1217]

What about the combos that are over factored(HP),that aftermarket parts are not available. the 3 tenths added to the index would kill or keep anyone from even thinking about building it. any changes should be made to the AHFS not the index. Just my 2cents. Mario

[Ed Wright]

>>ED ASKED: Have you ever seen a 904 transmission out of a jeep with a Chevy bolt pattern .

>>BILL SED: No

I have, I own one. They come in mail trucks, behind a GM 2.5L 4 cyl "iron duke" engine. Very light, but the input and output shafts are very small. Wish I could it were legal for SS, but if itwere I probably could not afford all the custom parts (at least the shafts I mentioned) it would take to beef it up. Lightest automatic I can remember lifting. Glenn Self runs on in his altered.