We need a new "instant" trigger!

[Larry Munk]

Michael, I'll take 2 please

[Billy Nees]

Alan, I'll lose my attitude about the time I'm taking that long, dirt nap and about the time that you stop whining about your 425/427 being beat to death. While I'm trying to honestly come up with a workable solution to what I consider to be a major problem with my sport I am once again proving a point about the majority of Sportsman racers that NHRA has always and will always take advantage of. We won't agree on ANYTHING that will be of any benefit to us at all! The bottom line is the simple fact that we are all willing to push our own selfish agendas to the point that the only things that get done are the things that get done TO us by the NHRA whether we like it or not. Now, I will ask again, focus boys, let's fix just ONE problem and then we can go on to the NEXT problem OK? No B.S., no impossible dreams, can we manage to hammer out a sensible, simple solution to the instant HP trigger that will bring underrated combos in line in a reasonable amount of time? No "the AHFS sucks", no "the business plan has changed", no "back in the old days", no "my car used to be a hitter and now it sucks", no "work harder a**hole", just a good, hopefully productive attempt at a solution that, if enough of us can agree on will be adopted by the NHRA. If we can agree to fix this then just maybe we can move on and, together, fix something else. At that point in time then we WILL be back in control of our sport.

[Billy Nees]

Damn! I'm starting to sound like a politician!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Alan, I'll lose my attitude about the time I'm taking that long, dirt nap and about the time that you stop whining about your 425/427 being beat to death. While I'm trying to honestly come up with a workable solution to what I consider to be a major problem with my sport I am once again proving a point about the majority of Sportsman racers that NHRA has always and will always take advantage of. We won't agree on ANYTHING that will be of any benefit to us at all! The bottom line is the simple fact that we are all willing to push our own selfish agendas to the point that the only things that get done are the things that get done TO us by the NHRA whether we like it or not. Now, I will ask again, focus boys, let's fix just ONE problem and then we can go on to the NEXT problem OK? No B.S., no impossible dreams, can we manage to hammer out a sensible, simple solution to the instant HP trigger that will bring underrated combos in line in a reasonable amount of time? No "the AHFS sucks", no "the business plan has changed", no "back in the old days", no "my car used to be a hitter and now it sucks", no "work harder a**hole", just a good, hopefully productive attempt at a solution that, if enough of us can agree on will be adopted by the NHRA. If we can agree to fix this then just maybe we can move on and, together, fix something else. At that point in time then we WILL be back in control of our sport.

Billy, I don't whine, I state facts. I've never claimed the 427/425 was "beat to death". I did state that it could not compete against cars and combinations with bogus factors, that applies to any car, engine, or combination that is properly and honestly factored, not just the 427/425, or the 350/255 we just sold.

Solutions were suggested and agreed upon, and were submitted to NHRA. At least that is what I was told by multiple sources, both inside NHRA and outside NHRA. The only response anyone has seen from NHRA was to remove all control of the AHFS from the people who knew the cars and the class.

I have no selfish agenda. I love a challenge. I do not want anyone to get an unfair handicap, all I am looking for is for cars to be properly and honestly factored. There is absolutely no pride or pleasure to be had in beating anyone who is laboring under an unfair handicap.

But I agree, it is nearly impossible to get even a decent majority to unite and take a stand on a decision for the common good. I'd love to see it happen, but I'm a realist, and familiar with human nature.

Now, if what you propose as a solution is to lower the trigger for "instant HP", I can tell you that the math says that will penalize cars and combinations that are more popular a lot sooner than it will penalize cars that are running on bogus factors. Why? Because there is a MUCH greater chance that a more popular car will go under the lower trigger either on purpose or not. Simply because the more popular car is much more likely to have to run hard to win class, and far more likely to see a heads up race.

I cannot read your mind, nor do I want to, I can only read your post. From your post, it appears your goal is to see the cars farthest out of line brought back in to line ASAP (but I can only guess). Simply lowering the instant HP trigger will not do that. Because there are a lot fewer cars that are way out of line as compared to cars that are a little out of line.

Let me define way out of line as compared to a little out of line, at least as I see it. Way out of line is a car that can easily run 1.4 or more under the index, under good conditions (decent air at Gainesville, for example), while carrying at least 100# or more extra. A little out of line is a car that can run 1.2-1.3 under the index in really good conditions (good air at Atco, for example), carrying 50-100# extra.

Now can you see why I'm saying that just lowering the instant HP trigger does not work? Sure, you can try it, but do not be surprised when it brings about results that are not exactly satisfactory to you.

[Jim Cimarolli]

My main concern about all of our worries on the subject of what would be a good solution to this problem is who at NHRA would listen to us even if we did come up with a viable proposal?
They never paid heed to anything the sportsman advisory committee suggested, and they put the darn committee together.

[jimi]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

OK everybody, The -1.40 trigger is taking too long to catch up to all of the "soft" combos out there! Any suggestions? OBTW we're talking Stock and SS!

how about no trigger at all, get rid of heads up runs during eliminations every one dials, let the fast cars go fast during class run offs, i am tired of seeing racers with 1.3 or faster cars dump and go 1.1 under at 90 mph,hard workers or intellegent people(with soft combos) deserve to go fast without penaltybecause the combo went 1.41 under one time,my ss/am car lost .15 for two passes in better than perfect conditions1.41. and 1.44 under a few years ago and it has only been repeated once since with no reverse factoring or consideration for the other twenty cars that can only run 1.1 under the index ,refactor cars and combonations off of a quarterly average for the entire class or car combination if refactoring is absolutly nessecary, this is a very touchy subject and sometimes very confusing as to wich way it should go, i just cant stand to watch cars get blasted for going fast, it takes the fun out of working hard to go fast just to be penalized ,weight added or index dropped,
well i said enough just my opinion flame away!!!!!!

[Blingmaster]

Question: What constitutes a Soft Combo????? Is 1 second under consdidered the norm but 1.40 is pushing the envelope. What if in lew of horsepower factors we use simple formula of 100 lbs. per tenth..
If someone runs 1,40 under make him add 400 lbs to that car only and not every same motored car in competition. Get the weight boxes ready....DD

[john ancona]

Originally Posted by jimi

how about no trigger at all, get rid of heads up runs during eliminations every one dials, let the fast cars go fast during class run offs, i am tired of seeing racers with 1.3 or faster cars dump and go 1.1 under at 90 mph,hard workers or intellegent people(with soft combos) deserve to go fast without penaltybecause the combo went 1.41 under one time,my ss/am car lost .15 for two passes in better than perfect conditions1.41. and 1.44 under a few years ago and it has only been repeated once since with no reverse factoring or consideration for the other twenty cars that can only run 1.1 under the index ,refactor cars and combonations off of a quarterly average for the entire class or car combination if refactoring is absolutly nessecary, this is a very touchy subject and sometimes very confusing as to wich way it should go, i just cant stand to watch cars get blasted for going fast, it takes the fun out of working hard to go fast just to be penalized ,weight added or index dropped,
well i said enough just my opinion flame away!!!!!!

The key ! (get rid of heads up runs during eliminations every one dials) The time has come with the supercharged cars,factory cars and soft combos, the guy with his or her old car can still run against these cars in the eliminator and hold his or her cost down , as for class let them go as fast as they can in the class run offs ! also just my opinion if you are with me great if not flame off !

[Alan Roehrich]

If we wanted to bracket race, with absurdly expensive high maintenance cars, we could always go with Super Pro, Pro, Heavy, and Street. We could even do that at local tracks.

No thanks. If I have to bracket race all the time, I'll give up racing and double or triple my time hunting and fishing.

Bracket racing is alive and well in America. We don't need another bracket only class. If there is no heads up, why have rules. Have an anything goes stock apearing class. But please leave our class alone in regards to heads ups.