The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? - Page 7

LNorton · 06-08-2009, 04:32 PM

I would be very surprised if Ken Keir would build the car to be blatantly illegal. It pushes the rulebook a bit, but I would be willing to bet that he contacted NHRA and IHRA about some of the issues.

bill dedman · 06-09-2009, 02:17 AM

Bob said, "So, by your mentality, it would be ok for this ten second car to have a delay box? As long as it does not affect it's 1/4 mile peformance it should be legal?"

You're right; I over-stated the case with regard to the "legality issues".

The original list of items contained several that were ostensibly, performance-related.

To wit:
1. Motor Plate
2. Motor / Mounts moved back
6. Frame connected above the floor
9. A-Frame adjustable stops

To me, the primariy issues (as opposed to B.S., nit-picking "no heater controls"-type of carping) had to do with the modifications that were performed to make the car quicker.

That, to me, was the main thrust of the complaints about this car, so that was the bunny trail my mind went down....

Of COURSE, I wouldn't want to see this car allowed to run with a delay box... Sorry I gave the wrong impression..

Your point is well-taken.

Bill

herbjr · 06-09-2009, 04:56 AM

The frame connected above the floor has only been legal for what 15-20 years. And the motor plate is only a 1/2 plate according to someone who saw it. Before you can bitch about someones car you need to know the rules yourself.

Jesse Knapp · 06-09-2009, 07:32 AM

Rule book Section 8A Stock cars, #4 Frame (page 109) says frame can be joined front to rear in a straight line "extending through car floor" with floor completely welded to member. Is this only regarding round tubing? I had the 2"x3" material and had to run it through floor. This was Div. 4 tech. Someone please enlighten me.

X-TECH MAN · 06-09-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herbjr

The frame connected above the floor has only been legal for what 15-20 years. And the motor plate is only a 1/2 plate according to someone who saw it. Before you can bitch about someones car you need to know the rules yourself.

You are correct Herb.....this thread is getting old from all the BS from the "arm chair" tech people on here. Why dont you give it a rest until Dave Ley or one of the other Div. 1 tech guys who accually knows stockers and cares about stock and super stock gives the car a through inspection at one of his circuit races or an NHRA event in Div. one. Dave is VERY knowledgeable and pulls no favorites. Ive known Ken Kier since the early 70's and he built my SS/IA Camaro when he was just starting out over 30 years ago so I doubt very much he is pushing the rules here. He's one of the best chassis guys in the business and has built more than just comp cars. When Dave Ley or one of the "real" NHRA tech inspectors sees it I have no doubt that the results will be plastered all over this forum in a matter of min. if not seconds. Theres "Telephone....Telegraph....and Tell-A-Racer". All of this speculation means squat and just causes hard feelings for all involved. In fact I will call Dave Ley this evening and ask him to take a close look at it the first chance he gets. Beautiful car Ken ! This thread is starting to sound like a bunch of old women...LOL.

Wade_Owens · 06-09-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNorton

I would be very surprised if Ken Keir would build the car to be blatantly illegal. It pushes the rulebook a bit, but I would be willing to bet that he contacted NHRA and IHRA about some of the issues.

This statement brings up a very valid point. What if Mr Keir contacted his Division Director/Tech Inspector and was given the green light on this stuff. How does the rest of us find out what is now deemed "acceptable"? Are there procedures in place to inform other Division/Inspectors what is now legal? Is the information passed on to Glendora for rulebook revisions? It would only be fair for all involved to get the same information and know they are still legal in their home division too.

Wade O

Bob Pagano · 06-09-2009, 11:39 AM

Why is there so much crap about a car that has run 2 events, they teched in at Maple Grove points race and ran an IHRA event. It did not set any records or win big money at Indy, the car is sharp no doubt about it. Like my old friend Xtechman said Dave Ley knows his stuff so we will see what come out of all this bull. No ones car is perfect and that is a fact, if its bogus it will come out but from what I have seen and heard do not hold your breath, heater controls ? give me a break......the car must be a second faster with that delete

GIVE IT A REST.

Michael Iacono · 06-09-2009, 12:07 PM

1/8 mile et x 1.59 is more accurate

KEN BUGAJ · 06-09-2009, 12:28 PM

Bob Stampfli needs a kick in the A--
Why would you want to pick a guys car apart? Just to start trouble !
When Bob gets a job as a tech person then He can open his big mouth.
99 % of the stockers out there can be DQ'd @anytime
I know Ken Keir and He's a first class guy !
They should Delete this thread and let Bob go watch the soaps...........

Ed Wright · 06-09-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Iacono

1/8 mile et x 1.59 is more accurate

Depends on the car, but this is the closest one to my car yet.

06-08-2009, 04:32 PM	#61
LNorton Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: RacerTees.com Posts: 505 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? I would be very surprised if Ken Keir would build the car to be blatantly illegal. It pushes the rulebook a bit, but I would be willing to bet that he contacted NHRA and IHRA about some of the issues. __________________ Lee Norton - N229 STK IHRA H/FIA - NHRA O/SA RacerTees.com

06-09-2009, 02:17 AM	#62
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? Bob said, "So, by your mentality, it would be ok for this ten second car to have a delay box? As long as it does not affect it's 1/4 mile peformance it should be legal?" You're right; I over-stated the case with regard to the "legality issues". The original list of items contained several that were ostensibly, performance-related. To wit: 1. Motor Plate 2. Motor / Mounts moved back 6. Frame connected above the floor 9. A-Frame adjustable stops To me, the primariy issues (as opposed to B.S., nit-picking "no heater controls"-type of carping) had to do with the modifications that were performed to make the car quicker. That, to me, was the main thrust of the complaints about this car, so that was the bunny trail my mind went down.... Of COURSE, I wouldn't want to see this car allowed to run with a delay box... Sorry I gave the wrong impression.. Your point is well-taken. Bill __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 06-09-2009 at 02:22 AM.

06-09-2009, 04:56 AM	#63
herbjr VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Greensboro NC Posts: 1,027 Likes: 1 Liked 83 Times in 32 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? The frame connected above the floor has only been legal for what 15-20 years. And the motor plate is only a 1/2 plate according to someone who saw it. Before you can bitch about someones car you need to know the rules yourself.

06-09-2009, 07:32 AM	#64
Jesse Knapp Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 109 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? Rule book Section 8A Stock cars, #4 Frame (page 109) says frame can be joined front to rear in a straight line "extending through car floor" with floor completely welded to member. Is this only regarding round tubing? I had the 2"x3" material and had to run it through floor. This was Div. 4 tech. Someone please enlighten me. __________________ Jesse Knapp 4899 STK, SS

06-09-2009, 11:39 AM	#67
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 243 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? Why is there so much crap about a car that has run 2 events, they teched in at Maple Grove points race and ran an IHRA event. It did not set any records or win big money at Indy, the car is sharp no doubt about it. Like my old friend Xtechman said Dave Ley knows his stuff so we will see what come out of all this bull. No ones car is perfect and that is a fact, if its bogus it will come out but from what I have seen and heard do not hold your breath, heater controls ? give me a break......the car must be a second faster with that delete GIVE IT A REST. __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA

06-09-2009, 12:07 PM	#68
Michael Iacono Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 119 Likes: 8 Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? 1/8 mile et x 1.59 is more accurate

06-09-2009, 12:28 PM	#69
KEN BUGAJ Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: LEXINGTON NC. Posts: 389 Likes: 43 Liked 18 Times in 7 Posts	Re: The Keir Stocker is absolutely 1st rate craftsmanship - but is it legal? Bob Stampfli needs a kick in the A-- Why would you want to pick a guys car apart? Just to start trouble ! When Bob gets a job as a tech person then He can open his big mouth. 99 % of the stockers out there can be DQ'd @anytime I know Ken Keir and He's a first class guy ! They should Delete this thread and let Bob go watch the soaps........... Last edited by KEN BUGAJ; 06-09-2009 at 12:43 PM.