Live from the Fall Classic - Page 5

Wayne Kerr · 10-17-2011, 06:24 PM

As far as Bales pistons go, here's a possible scenario:
There were a handful of 5.7's built and delivered with pistons that were 3/16 of an inch too tall. (not five thousandths) Mopar and Stanton were notified as soon as the issue was discovered.
There was also a memo from Mopar regarding the retainers, as many engines were shipped with titanium retainers. Neither one is excusable in my book.

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

NewHemi · 10-18-2011, 01:36 PM

I absolutely agree with Wayne.

5.7s have been running well over a year..

The dome height issue was NEVER a secret, and is something that every responsible owner/builder would/should know.

To try and now claim that "its not my fault, its Chrysler's fault" sounds a lot like Obama blaming Bush.

Even if it was that way in the beginning, there was plenty of time to get it right.

And when the record in A/SA is sitting at 10.50, why would a reasonable driver get horsepower to set it, when you could set it handiliy and safely at 1.18 under rather 1.20+

David
The New Hemi Guy

Andrew Hill · 10-18-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHemi

And when the record in A/SA is sitting at 10.50, why would a reasonable driver get horsepower to set it, when you could set it handiliy and safely at 1.18 under rather 1.20+

David
The New Hemi Guy

They did say that had absolutely no idea it would go that quick. They were going 9.90s testing the day before

rowdyboys31 · 10-18-2011, 08:41 PM

David, I'll back what Andrew said about Bales performance. Carey had the car at Muncie Dragway the week before the Classic and made two runs , He ran 9.98 and 9.97. When I talk to Eric in the lane's before the first record run he said they had changed something in the tuneup. I just wish I could remember what here said they changed, I'd like give it try on the Buick !
jkeihn3954

NewHemi · 10-18-2011, 09:21 PM

[QUOTE=Jason;288122][QUOTE=Andrew Hill;288105]Everyone except the Carey Bales. Apparently that car was one of the first few built, and the spec on the piston dome was changed after the motor was built. It still has the original pistons, so the dome was quite a bit too big. QUOTE]

So an engine that came stock from Chrysler with original pistons will not pass tech?

QUOTE]

Ummm, let see now. He blew it up/broke it, in Indy a few weeks before, and now he is running again. You surely can't be saying that the engine hasn't been apart and then back together at a minimum... I am not saying that the pistons were replaced, but certainly they were all of the way out of the engine, and then back in. And apparently nobody bothered to check dome height.

And as I said before, the dome height issue/requirement was NEVER a secret.

So was the illegal dome height on his pistons an innocent mistake, or was it an intentional attempt to gain an advantage?

Only he knows which it is.

But everyone else plays by the rules (We were torn down and found legal, including dome height...) and the rules are the rules, so why shouldn't he be held responsible?

David
The New Hemi Guy

Conway Witten · 10-18-2011, 09:48 PM

Does the rule book say anything about height? It just says same type dome of dish as an OEM piston. That is an OEM piston, right? If it cc's let it go.

NewHemi · 10-18-2011, 10:12 PM

It is a stock 5.7 Drag Pak Piston.

And dome height is one the specs on it.

David
The New Hemi Guy

dennis dunlap · 10-18-2011, 10:21 PM

John ,As for fuel check , maybe they need to get sum new equipment , I don,t know but i just doe,st seem right....... Sorry i ran out of C12 ... Nice effort with the Buick!!!! dennis

spike1 · 10-18-2011, 10:25 PM

Conway, All (most ?) engine builders use the NHRA spec sheet. Here it is for the 5.7 Hemi.
H.P. Disp. Deck Cl. Piston Height Vol Valves Cam Lift Springs Gasket

305 345 .000 Dome .210 16.4cc 2100/1600 602/569 Beehive .026

Even factory pistons can be manipulated, hence the nhra spec for dome height. There have been many DQs because the oem part did not meet the nhra specs. Ask Charlie Bob or me.lol Was Bales within spec for dome height? If he was, he is good. If he wasn't, he is out. About as black and white as you can get. Just my 2 cents worth. Keith Lynch 5035

rowdyboys31 · 10-18-2011, 11:43 PM

Dennis, Now that I look back on last weekend's fuel issue, It all fall's back on me for not having you bring me 5gal. c-12 or switching to the more stable c-11 you had. Dennis thanks again for helping me try to roundup some c-12, If the record still were its at next spring I'll give it another shot. Jkeihn3954

10-17-2011, 06:24 PM	#41
Wayne Kerr Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Out to Lunch Posts: 191 Likes: 2 Liked 26 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Live from the Fall Classic As far as Bales pistons go, here's a possible scenario: There were a handful of 5.7's built and delivered with pistons that were 3/16 of an inch too tall. (not five thousandths) Mopar and Stanton were notified as soon as the issue was discovered. There was also a memo from Mopar regarding the retainers, as many engines were shipped with titanium retainers. Neither one is excusable in my book. See you at the races, Wayne Kerr

10-18-2011, 01:36 PM	#42
NewHemi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 472 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Live from the Fall Classic I absolutely agree with Wayne. 5.7s have been running well over a year.. The dome height issue was NEVER a secret, and is something that every responsible owner/builder would/should know. To try and now claim that "its not my fault, its Chrysler's fault" sounds a lot like Obama blaming Bush. Even if it was that way in the beginning, there was plenty of time to get it right. And when the record in A/SA is sitting at 10.50, why would a reasonable driver get horsepower to set it, when you could set it handiliy and safely at 1.18 under rather 1.20+ David The New Hemi Guy Last edited by NewHemi; 10-18-2011 at 01:39 PM.

10-18-2011, 08:41 PM	#44
rowdyboys31 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 36 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Live from the Fall Classic David, I'll back what Andrew said about Bales performance. Carey had the car at Muncie Dragway the week before the Classic and made two runs , He ran 9.98 and 9.97. When I talk to Eric in the lane's before the first record run he said they had changed something in the tuneup. I just wish I could remember what here said they changed, I'd like give it try on the Buick ! jkeihn3954

10-18-2011, 09:21 PM	#45
NewHemi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 472 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Live from the Fall Classic [QUOTE=Jason;288122][QUOTE=Andrew Hill;288105]Everyone except the Carey Bales. Apparently that car was one of the first few built, and the spec on the piston dome was changed after the motor was built. It still has the original pistons, so the dome was quite a bit too big. QUOTE] So an engine that came stock from Chrysler with original pistons will not pass tech? QUOTE] Ummm, let see now. He blew it up/broke it, in Indy a few weeks before, and now he is running again. You surely can't be saying that the engine hasn't been apart and then back together at a minimum... I am not saying that the pistons were replaced, but certainly they were all of the way out of the engine, and then back in. And apparently nobody bothered to check dome height. And as I said before, the dome height issue/requirement was NEVER a secret. So was the illegal dome height on his pistons an innocent mistake, or was it an intentional attempt to gain an advantage? Only he knows which it is. But everyone else plays by the rules (We were torn down and found legal, including dome height...) and the rules are the rules, so why shouldn't he be held responsible? David The New Hemi Guy Last edited by NewHemi; 10-18-2011 at 09:25 PM.

10-18-2011, 09:48 PM	#46
Conway Witten Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Shelbyville, KY Posts: 108 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Live from the Fall Classic Does the rule book say anything about height? It just says same type dome of dish as an OEM piston. That is an OEM piston, right? If it cc's let it go.

10-18-2011, 10:12 PM	#47
NewHemi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 472 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Live from the Fall Classic It is a stock 5.7 Drag Pak Piston. And dome height is one the specs on it. David The New Hemi Guy

10-18-2011, 10:21 PM	#48
dennis dunlap Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 221 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Live from the Fall Classic John ,As for fuel check , maybe they need to get sum new equipment , I don,t know but i just doe,st seem right....... Sorry i ran out of C12 ... Nice effort with the Buick!!!! dennis

10-18-2011, 10:25 PM	#49
spike1 Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 96 Likes: 120 Liked 53 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Live from the Fall Classic Conway, All (most ?) engine builders use the NHRA spec sheet. Here it is for the 5.7 Hemi. H.P. Disp. Deck Cl. Piston Height Vol Valves Cam Lift Springs Gasket 305 345 .000 Dome .210 16.4cc 2100/1600 602/569 Beehive .026 Even factory pistons can be manipulated, hence the nhra spec for dome height. There have been many DQs because the oem part did not meet the nhra specs. Ask Charlie Bob or me.lol Was Bales within spec for dome height? If he was, he is good. If he wasn't, he is out. About as black and white as you can get. Just my 2 cents worth. Keith Lynch 5035

10-18-2011, 11:43 PM	#50
rowdyboys31 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 36 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Live from the Fall Classic Dennis, Now that I look back on last weekend's fuel issue, It all fall's back on me for not having you bring me 5gal. c-12 or switching to the more stable c-11 you had. Dennis thanks again for helping me try to roundup some c-12, If the record still were its at next spring I'll give it another shot. Jkeihn3954