Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

[Todd Geisler]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

It's because most of them are programed to leave soft and then increase power down track. Most of them 60' @ 1.35 or so. Otherwise there is no way a 1200 hp Cobra Jet can run on a 9" tire. Put a 12" tire on then and leave wide open and watch them run 7.90. Jim


.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

[Notch1320]

Originally Posted by Todd Geisler

That would be an incorrect assumption.

Don't stir the pot Todd! The elders don't like it.

[Notch1320]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Some of the best shops in the country are building these Stockers. And they are running wheelie bars on them and you're the only one out here with your coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff. Try building and racing a high letter Stocker today before coming out here and telling us how we should do it.

I can see why your discussion with Pat was....."lively".

"THEY" are running them because they are allowed to. The cars would be fast even if they weren't allowed to run the bars.

[Rich Biebel]

If you slow down the front end travel on a small tired Stocker you always run the risk of spinning the tires.

So you run the front end loose and if you have a car that is prone to doing wheelstands in good air and traction conditions you might find your up too high on the launch......If you lift you will probably cause some damage.....oil pan.....front end.....If you don't you could unload one tire when the rear sheet metal contacts the ground and wind up hitting something........like the guardrail or even the tree or the car in the other lane....

You have a 3 speed trans with a fairly steep rear gear and that makes a very low starting line ratio....and anyone whoever raced a Stocker knows the biggest ET gains are in the first 100 feet or so.....

If all this wasn't true all the cars that had powerglides and are now allowed 3 speeds would not have bothered to make the change.,....

I drove my old car a couple years ago when the present owner offered it to me for a couple races. It was doing some pretty high wheelies......I asked for the wheelie bars and put them on as I really did not want to hurt the car. It did a very high wheelie at the Dutch with the bars on and might have been a problem without them on for that run.....

Late model F-bodied Stockers are well known for doing big wheelstands and I recall one set of pictures form E-Town of a car that popped the hatch open when the rear bodywork dragged the ground....NO BARS....and it was pretty sideways when it came down......

I think it is rediculous to say a high class Stocker can be adjusted so it does not need bars.....If it is a wheelsatnd prone car like many it needs the bars.....and it is for safety....

Oh and the present owner of the car I was driving told me the reason he BLEW the Tires off at the E-Town Nationals in his other car was because he went a little to tight on the front end.....and that the only way to insure the car would hook was to do exactly what I told him two years ago .....leave the front end loose and use the bars......

[Bruce Noland]

Fast is relative. You are really very quick with the assumptions. They run the bars because they make the cars safer not because they are allowed.

[Todd Geisler]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Congratulations on proving Jim correct. We run around 1.34 to 1.35 60' times running 10.1X at 129MPH. The car runs 6.35 or so in the 1/8 mile. So he's going 1.35 seconds quicker in the 1/8 mile, on a similar 60' time. Which is EXACTLY the point Jim was making. A car that runs 5.0 @ 150 in the 1/8 mile should be going around 1.20 60' times.

You said "well below" 1.35. Define "well below".

Oh, was that Chevy II using leaf springs and traction bars? How about a stock front clip with near stock front suspension? And around 51-55% of its weight on the front tires?

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little.

My own car is a heads up, N/A car. Car weighs 2960 with driver and has 54% of the weight on the nose. It's got a conventional headed BBC that makes between 1100 and 1200 hp. The converter flashes to 7000 rpm, 4.57 rear gear on a 275/60 DOT drag radial tire which is 28" tall and has 10" of tread.

The car runs 5.0's at 137 mph and has 60'd a best of 1.129.

I'm just sharing this as there has been some misinformation when the heads up stuff was brought up.

I have used bars for several years, but when I started running this new class they are illegal, so I was forced to figure out how to run the car without them and keep the front end down. No it's not easy and if you make a bad tuning call it will go up (much quicker and more violent than a stocker).

Now, last I knew stockers weren't allowed travel limiters, but S/S was correct?

I'll also concede that lower HP cars need some weight transfer to get up on the tire where a higher HP car can plant it with power.

I will say this, I'm glad I no longer use the bars. They were a PITA as far as I'm concerned. It also makes you work harder to find the right setup for the days track/weather conditions as well as the tuneup you have in the car. That to me is a fun challenge even if I fail to get it right.

I would ask this. If bars were suddenly made illegal on stockers, would those who run just park their cars, or would you buckle down and figure out a way to make it work without them?

Stock and S/S are great classes, some of my favorites by far. I kinda treat mine as if I was running S/S on small tires & stock suspension as far as running as hard as possible to the 60 & 330.

And I do understand you can't easily compare low & high HP cars when it comes to some of this stuff.

[TOSTO RACING]

If wheellie bars were illegal in stock i'd buy some 205/70/15 radials,a powerglide, and run the dog squat nationals! And go 10.90's and 310 mph lol!

I really can't believe these guys are worried about a notch in the valance panel with all the other stuff that is legal in stock lol.

That's my .08 cents worth lol!

[Todd Geisler]

Originally Posted by TOSTO RACING

If wheellie bars were illegal in stock i'd buy some 205/70/15 radials,a powerglide, and run the dog squat nationals! And go 10.90's and 310 mph lol!

I really can't believe these guys are worried about a notch in the valance panel with all the other stuff that is legal in stock lol.

That's my .08 cents worth!

No doubt the no-notch rule is silly. I guess the NHRA folks had no real reason for the rule other than maybe looks which is why they got flustered with the OP's questions & dialogue.

[TOSTO RACING]

I don't even have a notch in the bumper and just think its silly! Some cars need a little notch to make the bars work right in my opinion.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Todd Geisler

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little.

My own car is a heads up, N/A car. Car weighs 2960 with driver and has 54% of the weight on the nose. It's got a conventional headed BBC that makes between 1100 and 1200 hp. The converter flashes to 7000 rpm, 4.57 rear gear on a 275/60 DOT drag radial tire which is 28" tall and has 10" of tread.

The car runs 5.0's at 137 mph and has 60'd a best of 1.129.

I'm just sharing this as there has been some misinformation when the heads up stuff was brought up.

I have used bars for several years, but when I started running this new class they are illegal, so I was forced to figure out how to run the car without them and keep the front end down. No it's not easy and if you make a bad tuning call it will go up (much quicker and more violent than a stocker).

Now, last I knew stockers weren't allowed travel limiters, but S/S was correct?

I'll also concede that lower HP cars need some weight transfer to get up on the tire where a higher HP car can plant it with power.

I will say this, I'm glad I no longer use the bars. They were a PITA as far as I'm concerned. It also makes you work harder to find the right setup for the days track/weather conditions as well as the tuneup you have in the car. That to me is a fun challenge even if I fail to get it right.

I would ask this. If bars were suddenly made illegal on stockers, would those who run just park their cars, or would you buckle down and figure out a way to make it work without them?

Stock and S/S are great classes, some of my favorites by far. I kinda treat mine as if I was running S/S on small tires & stock suspension as far as running as hard as possible to the 60 & 330.

And I do understand you can't easily compare low & high HP cars when it comes to some of this stuff.

Being the Devil's advocate is cool. You listed several important reasons for the the use of wheelie bars and then implied (knuckle down) that racers were taking the easy way out by using them. The builders and racers use them because they offer substantial protection for driver and race car. Wheelie bars have worked for years and will continue to do so even if there are a few people in the tech department who don't understand their importance. And that is the reason I started this thread - the huge disconnect between the rule book reading tech department staff and the racers.

So your question of either parking the cars or changing them is based on something that will never happen and offers a false premise. No, I don't think you are trying to be tricky. But, the executives at nhra would never ever take away a piece of safety equipment that could result in serious legal exposure for injury or death. Remember this safety equipment was openly supported and approved by nhra personel and then published in the Dragster when accepted..

Another point to remember is that many of us build and work on our own cars and for some the wheelie bars offer a greater amount of protection. The legal folks at nhra know this as well.