Espn - Page 5

Floyd Gomez · 05-22-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris1529

I think Tony Janes said it best when he said the show is for the fans.
How many of us are really fans? I would suspect that not too many of us would go to a drag race if we didn't have a car, or go with someone that has a car.

I have always enjoyed going to the races. Even at times I didn't have a car I still went. I enjoy taking my family. I have also gone plenty to help othres with their cars or just ot watch them run. If I wasn't a FAN of drag racing I wouldn't do it. I am not sure why you would think most of us are not fans. I as well as every other racer I know do this for the love of the sport. We are certainly not doing this for a living. IMO if you are not a fan of drag racing then sell your car and move on.

Michael Beard · 05-22-2009, 12:53 PM

Jackie's on it.... PINKS does a good job with their production, and they highlight not only the cars, but also the people. It's also worthy of noting that the original PINKS shows featured handicap racing. People DO get it.

On a separate note, I would be very interesting in helping get an all-Sportsman series off the ground. I can help with all kinds of design & printing, whether it be website, magazine, flyers, decals, etc., as well as announcing, photography, etc. (maybe not all at once!)

Nitro Joe will be indoctrinated into the organization too, whether he wants to or not.

Who's currently working on this? There is a network of support here. Where are we at, and what's the next step. Now is the time to be planning for 2010. PM me or e-mail beard@staginglight.com.

In the meantime, support your local S/SS Combos. There's a $5K S/SS Shootout coming up at Beaver Springs, PA in conjunction with their York Nostalgia Nationals -- their biggest spectator event of the year, and Jim Helsel's working on the possibility of some TV with the guys from 1320X. I'm sure it will garner magazine coverage as well.

Harry 6674 · 05-22-2009, 01:48 PM

I think the whining and bitching got to Terry before he said start your engines but he may still be working on it. Lets hope something gets started.

bill dedman · 05-22-2009, 02:20 PM

Jackie,
Explain something to me, please...

You said, "Of course you would have to have NHRA’s permission to tape and show their product so figure on writing them a check, as well."

Fact: NHRA does little or nothing to "promote" Sportsman racing (beyond the alky cars, which is not the focus of this discussion.)

Fact: NHRA is in deep financial trouble compared with, say, five years ago before the "crunch" hit everybody and his brother...

Fact: TV time of ANY KIND is good exposure for something as relatively obscure in the public eye as NHRA racing (go up to the man on the street and ask him who John Force is; you'll get a blank stare 9 times out of ten... and he's the best they've got in terms of name recognition.)

Fact: A show with lots of close-ups of wheelstanding Stockers and Super Stockers could be a very visually-appealing spectacle on today's H-D TV screens, if the announcer could get it right.

Fact: Jackie says in order to bring this off, somebody would have to cough up $$$$$ to grease NHRA's palm....

Let's look at that statement.

If nobody can come up with the cash to give NHRA, what happens?

Nothing. NHRA gets NO exposure from this deal...

NHRA desperately needs ALL THE EXPOSURE IT CAN BUY, BEG OR BORROW...at anytime, anywhere, anyhow. It's a too-well-kept secret in the TV scheme of things.

Since NHRA is going to be the prime recipient of the PR benefits of this activity, and it will cost NHRA virtually NOTHING to make happen, why wouldn't they welcome this idea and the producers of such a show with open arms, and THANK THEM for the exposure??? Asking them for money, TOO, would seem to be not in their best interests, since it might queer the deal, and they'd benefit nothing from the lost opportunity.

WHY wouldn't NHRA allow this show to be produced and aired for NO CHARGE, since they would be the primary beneficiaries of the exposure?

It seems to me that that would be just another instance of NHRA cutting off its nose to spite its face, asking for the producers of this to PAY THEM for something that is already going to benefit them in untold ways.

What's up with that, Jackie???

63corvette · 05-22-2009, 02:43 PM

NHRA will not release anything unless they get PAID...
I witnessed the NHRA security get physical with a photographer at Indy last year over photo's he was taking. He had a press credential and all but he was being questioned and asked (forced) to leave along with being threatened with arrest if he did not turn over his film or memory card.
I don't know all the story but I was right next to the photographer when it happened so I know it was a strong arm job.
That is why I say NHRA will never let something out unless dollars are exchanged.
My 2 Cents

05-23-2009, 08:11 AM

Bill,

Corvette has it right. NHRA is a “brand” that is owned by NHRA, they own the rights to anything and everything “NHRA”, that includes the “races” and what goes on at the races. You are positively right about they need the exposure but they also need/want the money as the organization is now run by businessmen for businessmen, possibly not very savvy businessmen but nonetheless...

There was a time I think when they would have welcomed the exposure with open arms but no longer. Because NHRA is now a “brand” and a for profit business they want to control how it is portrayed, how it is presented, and a piece of the pie if any money is going to be made off it i.e. their brand.

BF Goodrich got into a “spat” with them over a tire ad a few years ago because you could see NHRA and Lucas Oil logos in the background and they didn’t get a check for it, so go figure. Now, if they won’t let a tire company show a photo of a wheel standing race car to sell tires because their logo is in the “incidental background” what makes you think they are going to let a TV show anywhere near one of their races without writing them a check and probably have at least some control over the content to make sure it is “properly presented”.

Remember the scheme to split the “pro NHRA” from the “sportsman NHRA”? Their elite view of the world doesn’t allow them to see past the end of the nose, sportsman racing is not racing it is some hayseed hick sport that nobody cares about because you don’t cross the finish line upside down and on fire

NHRA is run by businessmen bean counters not racers, they have no concept of what the sport is about or what motivates racers or race fans and that includes even the Pro’s. If you want to see what happens to a business when it is taken over by bean counter businessmen and brand managers just look at GM and Chrysler. Those are the only two car company’s not run by car people and look where they are.

Jackie McCracken

Disclaimer/Guarantee:
My opinions are my opinions and are not anybody else’s opinions either living or dead. Any similarity of opinion, thought process, or idea with anyone else either living or dead is merely coincidence and should not be construed as anything else…

GarysZ24 · 05-23-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackie McCracken

The shows are basically produced by NHRA who then buys time from ESPN. It is a contractual deal that depending on what they pay is whether are can or are able to preempt or be preempted and what time slot they get. The money to pay for the time comes from the sponsors of the show. IHRA does the same thing with their shows on Speed which are not that great either. Pinks has the same deal but with slightly better production.

I have access to first class production facilities if somebody has the money or the sponsors I am all ears. In other words if you have the money I have the means to make it happen. Of course you would have to have NHRA’s permission to tape and show their product so figure on writing them a check as well. I think a sportsman show could be a real money maker if presented right, the problem is getting it started.

Jackie McCracken

Disclaimer/Guarantee:
My opinions are my opinions and are not anybody else’s opinions either living or dead. Any similarity of opinion, thought process, or idea with anyone else either living or dead is merely coincidence and should not be construed as anything else…

What a great birthday present that would be for me (tomorrow) to be able to acquire (thru the Powerball Lottery---currently at $192mil) some of the funds needed to meet with you Jackie to launch such a thing for us S/SS racers (plus the other non-alcoholic/injected nitro sportsman ranks)? I know the greater tv exposure would not only help generate sponshorship interest to those of us who desire such, but it would also attract more young racers to our ranks...thus ensuring the stable future of Stock & Super Stock Eliminator for many more years!

With spokesmen such as Bob Frey to announce our style of racing to the viewing audience, I feel fan appeal will grow, and we could get more fans to stay in their seats while we race, and/or get them to want to spend more time checking out our operations instead of focusing primarily on the pro/alcohol classes!?

My .02 worth....

GarysZ24 · 05-23-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcink

As I mentioned prior, this all sounds good, but comparing Stock, Super Stock, and Competition
eliminators to PINKS ALL OUT is a mistake. I believe the reason it does as well as it does, is that they
show some of the wilder stuff (wheelies, crashes, etc) and then pick a group of cars that run ET's very close to each other, and run it off.

This way, they have heads up racing, and the winner wins (unless you all of sudden go too fast).

Unfortunately, as we all know, the classes I've mentioned are not as simple as that.

They (PINKS) has also figured out that a field of rear engine big block Chevy dragsters isn't
a very good show, so they pick an ET range that has a great variety of cars, but can still run heads up.

I would love to see these eliminator cars racing on national tv, but the handicap starts, breakouts, and CIC penalties will be the hardest sell, as it is very hard to explain to the average Joe.

Am I missing something here?

Your thoughts are probably well noted , but after what I heard of the 2006 Mile High's and the apparent fan appeal towards my FWD car making it to the quarter-finals, and their stated groans after I lost my race to Ryan McClannahan's Firebird, I'd beg to differ with you. That experience told me that there are plenty of fans who would love to see "TORTOISE & HARE" racing (whether the handicap was .5sec., or 5sec.). If some announcer would offer the races as a mechanical (high speed) form of the "CHESS" game, then I think those who like those thinking types of games will gain a greater appreciation for what we do, because in all truth:

1. Heads up racing is pretty much the person with the most money wins most of their races (especially in the pro ranks).

2. Our level of racing requires some money to do it, but more skill/luck to succeed at it. Don't believe me? Ask Fletch, the Emmons Brothers, the Lang Brothers, the DeFranks, Lee Zane, the Taylor Brothers (Jeff & Charlie), etc.

There may be fans out there who want to see the fastest car win (w/o handicaps), but there are others who actually like competitions of the mind, and where that type is concerned "Sportsman Racers Rule"!!!

Thus something for everyone....

BTW, we have wheelstanders too and generally better ones than those on Pinks...I haven't forgotten how cool "John Friels" SS/AA Dodge Dart looked in that "Turbo Action" Video of Div. II racing from the early '90's...he was supposed to be racing "Bullet" Bob Reed, but Bob's car had problems at the launch, and all we were blessed to see was a 100-200' long wheelstand by Johns Dart, which after it "gracefully settled down", hauled *** down the quarter to the then tune of a 9.18 e.t. @ 144 mph.!!! You don't get many wheelstands (even today) that can rank with that, and I have yet to see any on that show that compare!!!

hbps1978 · 05-23-2009, 07:39 PM

Gentlemen,

I agree that ESPN coverage of Sportsman classes and Pro Classes sucks. I'm really ashamed because I live in Bristol and the show they had on TV from Bristol was really bad. Yes, Paul page has to go - he is boring and he's an idiot.

I noticed you guys brought up possibly starting a true Sportsman Series. What about the guy that is trying to get the AHRA started up again as a sportman racing organiztion only right now? Here is a link guys:
http://ahradragracing.com/index.htm

I'm not able to go racing this year and maybe or maybe not next year with my own car(s) but I would love to see a good sportsman orginazation get started.

mcink · 05-23-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Your thoughts are probably well noted , but after what I heard of the 2006 Mile High's and the apparent fan appeal towards my FWD car making it to the quarter-finals, and their stated groans after I lost my race to Ryan McClannahan's Firebird, I'd beg to differ with you. That experience told me that there are plenty of fans who would love to see "TORTOISE & HARE" racing (whether the handicap was .5sec., or 5sec.). If some announcer would offer the races as a mechanical (high speed) form of the "CHESS" game, then I think those who like those thinking types of games will gain a greater appreciation for what we do, because in all truth:

1. Heads up racing is pretty much the person with the most money wins most of their races (especially in the pro ranks).

2. Our level of racing requires some money to do it, but more skill/luck to succeed at it. Don't believe me? Ask Fletch, the Emmons Brothers, the Lang Brothers, the DeFranks, Lee Zane, the Taylor Brothers (Jeff & Charlie), etc.

There may be fans out there who want to see the fastest car win (w/o handicaps), but there are others who actually like competitions of the mind, and where that type is concerned "Sportsman Racers Rule"!!!

Thus something for everyone....

BTW, we have wheelstanders too and generally better ones than those on Pinks...I haven't forgotten how cool "John Friels" SS/AA Dodge Dart looked in that "Turbo Action" Video of Div. II racing from the early '90's...he was supposed to be racing "Bullet" Bob Reed, but Bob's car had problems at the launch, and all we were blessed to see was a 100-200' long wheelstand by Johns Dart, which after it "gracefully settled down", hauled *** down the quarter to the then tune of a 9.18 e.t. @ 144 mph.!!! You don't get many wheelstands (even today) that can rank with that, and I have yet to see any on that show that compare!!!

You're preaching to the choir here. I really enjoy the handicap racing myself, and I have only ever been a spectator, never a racer. But, the general public wont understand it, even though it is cool.

It would take a spectacular announcer to explain it, and they would need to do it over and over again on
each telecast every week, not unlike the stuff they beat into our heads on the NASCAR races (i believe someone else complained about that on this thread) and we (the real race fans) would get bored with that.

I want it as much as anyone, but I don't think it is going to happen anytime soon.

I'll get down off my soapbox now.

05-22-2009, 12:53 PM	#42
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Espn Jackie's on it.... PINKS does a good job with their production, and they highlight not only the cars, but also the people. It's also worthy of noting that the original PINKS shows featured handicap racing. People DO get it. On a separate note, I would be very interesting in helping get an all-Sportsman series off the ground. I can help with all kinds of design & printing, whether it be website, magazine, flyers, decals, etc., as well as announcing, photography, etc. (maybe not all at once!) Nitro Joe will be indoctrinated into the organization too, whether he wants to or not. Who's currently working on this? There is a network of support here. Where are we at, and what's the next step. Now is the time to be planning for 2010. PM me or e-mail beard@staginglight.com. In the meantime, support your local S/SS Combos. There's a $5K S/SS Shootout coming up at Beaver Springs, PA in conjunction with their York Nostalgia Nationals -- their biggest spectator event of the year, and Jim Helsel's working on the possibility of some TV with the guys from 1320X. I'm sure it will garner magazine coverage as well. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

05-22-2009, 01:48 PM	#43
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Espn I think the whining and bitching got to Terry before he said start your engines but he may still be working on it. Lets hope something gets started.

05-22-2009, 02:20 PM	#44
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Espn Jackie, Explain something to me, please... You said, "Of course you would have to have NHRA’s permission to tape and show their product so figure on writing them a check, as well." Fact: NHRA does little or nothing to "promote" Sportsman racing (beyond the alky cars, which is not the focus of this discussion.) Fact: NHRA is in deep financial trouble compared with, say, five years ago before the "crunch" hit everybody and his brother... Fact: TV time of ANY KIND is good exposure for something as relatively obscure in the public eye as NHRA racing (go up to the man on the street and ask him who John Force is; you'll get a blank stare 9 times out of ten... and he's the best they've got in terms of name recognition.) Fact: A show with lots of close-ups of wheelstanding Stockers and Super Stockers could be a very visually-appealing spectacle on today's H-D TV screens, if the announcer could get it right. Fact: Jackie says in order to bring this off, somebody would have to cough up $$$$$ to grease NHRA's palm.... Let's look at that statement. If nobody can come up with the cash to give NHRA, what happens? Nothing. NHRA gets NO exposure from this deal... NHRA desperately needs ALL THE EXPOSURE IT CAN BUY, BEG OR BORROW...at anytime, anywhere, anyhow. It's a too-well-kept secret in the TV scheme of things. Since NHRA is going to be the prime recipient of the PR benefits of this activity, and it will cost NHRA virtually NOTHING to make happen, why wouldn't they welcome this idea and the producers of such a show with open arms, and THANK THEM for the exposure??? Asking them for money, TOO, would seem to be not in their best interests, since it might queer the deal, and they'd benefit nothing from the lost opportunity. WHY wouldn't NHRA allow this show to be produced and aired for NO CHARGE, since they would be the primary beneficiaries of the exposure? It seems to me that that would be just another instance of NHRA cutting off its nose to spite its face, asking for the producers of this to PAY THEM for something that is already going to benefit them in untold ways. What's up with that, Jackie??? __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 05-22-2009 at 02:23 PM.

05-22-2009, 02:43 PM	#45
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 551 Likes: 127 Liked 353 Times in 102 Posts	Re: Espn NHRA will not release anything unless they get PAID... I witnessed the NHRA security get physical with a photographer at Indy last year over photo's he was taking. He had a press credential and all but he was being questioned and asked (forced) to leave along with being threatened with arrest if he did not turn over his film or memory card. I don't know all the story but I was right next to the photographer when it happened so I know it was a strong arm job. That is why I say NHRA will never let something out unless dollars are exchanged. My 2 Cents

05-23-2009, 08:11 AM	#46
Jackie McCracken Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Espn Bill, Corvette has it right. NHRA is a “brand” that is owned by NHRA, they own the rights to anything and everything “NHRA”, that includes the “races” and what goes on at the races. You are positively right about they need the exposure but they also need/want the money as the organization is now run by businessmen for businessmen, possibly not very savvy businessmen but nonetheless... There was a time I think when they would have welcomed the exposure with open arms but no longer. Because NHRA is now a “brand” and a for profit business they want to control how it is portrayed, how it is presented, and a piece of the pie if any money is going to be made off it i.e. their brand. BF Goodrich got into a “spat” with them over a tire ad a few years ago because you could see NHRA and Lucas Oil logos in the background and they didn’t get a check for it, so go figure. Now, if they won’t let a tire company show a photo of a wheel standing race car to sell tires because their logo is in the “incidental background” what makes you think they are going to let a TV show anywhere near one of their races without writing them a check and probably have at least some control over the content to make sure it is “properly presented”. Remember the scheme to split the “pro NHRA” from the “sportsman NHRA”? Their elite view of the world doesn’t allow them to see past the end of the nose, sportsman racing is not racing it is some hayseed hick sport that nobody cares about because you don’t cross the finish line upside down and on fire NHRA is run by businessmen bean counters not racers, they have no concept of what the sport is about or what motivates racers or race fans and that includes even the Pro’s. If you want to see what happens to a business when it is taken over by bean counter businessmen and brand managers just look at GM and Chrysler. Those are the only two car company’s not run by car people and look where they are. Jackie McCracken Disclaimer/Guarantee: My opinions are my opinions and are not anybody else’s opinions either living or dead. Any similarity of opinion, thought process, or idea with anyone else either living or dead is merely coincidence and should not be construed as anything else…

05-23-2009, 07:39 PM	#49
hbps1978 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bristol Va Posts: 19 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Espn Gentlemen, I agree that ESPN coverage of Sportsman classes and Pro Classes sucks. I'm really ashamed because I live in Bristol and the show they had on TV from Bristol was really bad. Yes, Paul page has to go - he is boring and he's an idiot. I noticed you guys brought up possibly starting a true Sportsman Series. What about the guy that is trying to get the AHRA started up again as a sportman racing organiztion only right now? Here is a link guys: http://ahradragracing.com/index.htm I'm not able to go racing this year and maybe or maybe not next year with my own car(s) but I would love to see a good sportsman orginazation get started.