worst red light debate, again!

[Bunkster]

Mr. Dedman, it appears the only thing to equalize foul start jeopardy across all categories, is to find a way to institute a “first” situation into heads up races.

Now, this will take some thought, as how do you convert a heads up run to equal status of a handicap run?

Faster qualifiers seem to be the logical choice here. Be it Pro Stock or Stock, the higher qualified car should be exempt from any dual red light race: If both cars in a heads up race foul, the car that qualified higher will be the winner. There is no problem with writing this into the software: It is simple “if…then…else…endif” programming.

Would this make less sense than what is in place now? It seems it would be a fair way of one-car foul- start jeopardy in ALL races.

FIRST RED LIGHT FOR EVERYONE!

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Bunkster

And if...just if....your opponent would have been made to take an equal shot at the tree, you would have thought this unfair?

You would have complained about this and insisted a "first red light" rule should be established?

No way. I don't whine, cry and complain about anything. I don't ask anyone to give me anything. I have had 2 jobs my entire life that paid by the hour and they were both short lived. Since then I've worked on commission or owned my own business. I alone am responsible for my successes and I alone am responsible for my failures or losses. I believe that and apply it in every facet of my life, including racing. Everyone's rule book reads the same. I knew what the rules were when I entered the race. When you make a mistake and you lose, at least be man enough to admit it or stay home.

[Bunkster]

Originally Posted by Pvt Parts

No way. I don't whine, cry and complain about anything. I don't ask anyone to give me anything. I have had 2 jobs my entire life that paid by the hour and they were both short lived. Since then I've worked on commission or owned my own business. I alone am responsible for my successes and I alone am responsible for my failures or losses. I believe that and apply it in every facet of my life, including racing. Everyone's rule book reads the same. I knew what the rules were when I entered the race. When you make a mistake and you lose, at least be man enough to admit it or stay home.

That is a quite impressive resume you have. You should be very, very proud of yourself. (What, though, that has to do with the price of ice cream in Kandahar, is a mystery.)

Thank you though for stating, one way or another, you don’t care. If it were changed to a “worst” foul start, that would be fine with you. As you mentioned, you won’t whine or moan about anything.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Bunkster

That is a quite impressive resume you have. You should be very, very proud of yourself. (What, though, that has to do with the price of ice cream in Kandahar, is a mystery.)

Thank you though for stating, one way or another, you don’t care. If it were changed to a “worst” foul start, that would be fine with you. As you mentioned, you won’t whine or moan about anything.

Take your no name,no racing ***** back to the school yard and play skip rope with the rest of the girls.Your nosensical comments are as useful as ***$ on a bull.And spit out the dictionary you've been chewing on.You sound like a shyster lawyer,which you probably are.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Take your no name,no racing ***** back to the school yard and play skip rope with the rest of the girls.Your nosensical comments are as useful as ***$ on a bull.And spit out the dictionary you've been chewing on.You sound like a shyster lawyer,which you probably are.

Ed, I wonder how he/she would make a heads-up read light worse without also being first? Going red worse in a heads-up, without also being first to red light would be a real feat. LMAO

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Bunkster

That is a quite impressive resume you have. You should be very, very proud of yourself. (What, though, that has to do with the price of ice cream in Kandahar, is a mystery.)

Thank you though for stating, one way or another, you don’t care. If it were changed to a “worst” foul start, that would be fine with you. As you mentioned, you won’t whine or moan about anything.

It means Mr. Bunkster that I accept full responsibility for my actions, the ones that produce a "win" as well as the ones that result in a "loss". I see the world for what it is and not "as advertised". I would suggest that if you wanted to continue to post in this board with the slightest amount of credibility, you'd use your real name instead of alias. Till then you're just irresponsible, unknown mouthpiece spewing worthless nonsense from behind a dark curtain.

[FINESPLINE]

Originally Posted by Pvt Parts

No way. I don't whine, cry and complain about anything. I don't ask anyone to give me anything. I have had 2 jobs my entire life that paid by the hour and they were both short lived. Since then I've worked on commission or owned my own business. I alone am responsible for my successes and I alone am responsible for my failures or losses. I believe that and apply it in every facet of my life, including racing. Everyone's rule book reads the same. I knew what the rules were when I entered the race. When you make a mistake and you lose, at least be man enough to admit it or stay home.

Scott , I tip my hat to you. Maybe you could pass some of that information onto the new generation. It truly is refreshing to hear there are people taking responsibility for themselves. The only way to live ! ---John

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Pvt Parts

BTW, I failed to mention..... the first 2 times I red lit in the final. Once as the slower car, once as the faster car. And not anywhere, to anyone at any time have I ever blamed anything or anyone but myself for screwing up. The fairness in the rule gave me the opportunity to get back up, work on improving my driving and try again. The 3rd time both of us were green. I just got outrun, plain and simple. In all 3 cases, my opponent ran a better race than I did and deserved the win.

What "fairness?" The fact that when you ran that race as a slower car, you had a chance to red light, but he NEVER DID? He waltzed into the next round (or, to the winner's circle) without ever having to face the red light jeopardy that you did.

What's "fair" about that?

Nothing.

He advanced to the next round (or to the winner's circle) because you (and NHRA) gave him "the gift" of a free ride to the next-round/winner's circle and all he had to do for it was stage his car.

I think a round win should require more than simply staging your car.

Don't you?

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

I don't know why I waste my time with this, but I just had to go back and take a look. In my last 26 National Events, I have red lit 5 times in competition. Two times in heads up runs (lost to a faster car each time), and 3 times as the "chaser". I have had eleven people red light against me. Seven of them were slower cars and I did not go red against them. Four of those were faster cars and I had already gone green. I know, I know, Bill. This doesn't matter, does it?

It only matters if the second car to leave is awarded a "win" without having to do anything but stage his car, to earn it.

As the rules stand, that is the case, if the first car "bulbs."

That happens very infrequently, and as such, isn't a big issue.... so, let's fix it.

[bill dedman]

Jeff said:


"Each participant has the same rule book to review before entering the first race. Each is given equal opportunity to red light. Each is given equal opportunity to cut a .000 reaction time and predict to .00 their ET. Either participant can win or loose based on their own actions."

If you have a quicker car, and I HAVE to leave first (no choice, but to leave first in a handicapped race, if your car is quicker) If I "bulb," you have NO "equal opportunity" to red light; you get a "win" by simply having staged your car.

There is NO situation in which the slower car can "enjoy" the same "gimmee."

The slower car ALWAYS faces red light jeopardy.

The quicker car does NOT. When his competitor red lights, he is REMOVED from red light jeopardy. And, gets a free ride to the next round or, winner's circle.

I can't see anything fair or equitable about that, can you?

If you can, please explain what is fair about that set of circumstances.

Two cars; one quicker, one slower... the slower one ALWAYS faces red light jeopardy... the faster car, ONLY if the first car goes green.

Makes no sense...

If you know of any Bracket tracks that utilize a "worse red light" system, please let me know. I do not.

That means that the starting line protocol (rules) for NHRA or IHRA "class racing" are 100-percent identical to the rules used in the Brackets.

That means that any comments, analyses, criticisms, or opinions that apply to Bracket starting line procedure also apply to class racing. 100-percent.

As such, since it's ALL done the same, WHY would you feel that comments about this system are impertinent, REGARDLESS of where the poster races? Everybody, the poster and the legal class racers, suffer the same, identical, fate at the hands of the first red light rule.

Everybody.

So, why would you think that a Bracket Racer's comments would be impertinent on a class racer's board when whatever is said, applies across the board, class or Bracket?

This particular board was created by Ken for the expressed purpose of giving a voice to people who are not currently racing a class car.

As such, there is no moderator-based editorializing regarding subject matter, or maybe you hadn't noticed?

As long as people who post here don't tell lies, unjustly accuse someone of something, don't slander people and don't use profanity, it would seem to be open to any kind of racing-related subject matter anyone wants to post.

I use it in that manner. As it was intended. If I am doing someting Ken doesn't feel is appropriate, he can tell me and I will cease and desist.

In the meantime, I will assume that SOMEBODY finds this thread interesting and prertinent. I received a phone call from somebody in Canada today (Monday) who said he doesn't post here, but has read every page, and is in awe of how anybody could not agree with me, on the red light issue. He is a former class racer who is currently building a new car.

That was nice to hear.

Your words, here, from this post... "Each is given equal opportunity to red light."

Not true.

The second car to leave gives up that "equal opportunity" if the first-to-leave "bulbs."

That's the unfair part.

You contend that the race is over, when the first-to-leave car bulbs, and THAT IS TRUE, with the current red light rule... but it doesn't have to be that way. That scenario was the result of antiquated electronics that existed in 1963. In the many years since then, advances in electronics have made it possible to fix that inequity.

Let's do it...