Stock and the late models, a solution. - Page 4

Dave Casey · 10-14-2010, 04:52 PM

My Thoughts

I don't want any new classes with one exception. Many new cars have a blower or turbo, these cars need to be in their own class. I don't believe it will ever be possible to factor these cars to run with non pressurized cars. Make a 7,8,and 9 lb blown/turbo class, combine sticks and autos together. If you are truly looking toward the future, this will help as all manufacturers have or will have these cars .

Non pressurized(normally aspirated) cars should stay as is or eliminate a few classes. We just need the new cars to be factored better to begin with. Now that there are a host of underfactored cars, 2 things should happen.

1. review and raise some factors soon
2. Make the factoring system in place more aggressive

two last points ,,,,

I personally think our cars are plenty fast now, I would hate to see any wt breaks lower than 7 lbs/hp.

We don't need purpose built factory cars that are not made for street use originally. Stop accepting them now. I know the ones already accepted are here to stay, but enough of it.There are plenty of good performance cars out there that would fit right in with this category

House of Darts · 10-14-2010, 05:46 PM

How many posts have been devoted to the new cars? All the factory cars from the 60's have found their way into the "PROPER" class (more or less). I imagine that there were some GM and Ford racers that were pissed when Chrysler brought out their factory cars. Thank God that the BIG 3 have not decided to build smart cars. This a great opportunity to get the BIG3 and NHRA/IHRA to start posting $ for winning class. Higher payout by the BIG 3 for using their models and parts. More racers come out. More spectators come out. More cars are sold. And the saga continues. Crate motors are a great idea. Easing up on some of the blueprint specs/replacement parts is good too.If it gets easier to run S/SS, how about divisinals with just S/SS with 300 car counts. All done in 2 days.

NewHemi · 10-18-2010, 05:18 PM

I have agreed all along that the new cars need new classes. I had hoped that would happen before we even tracked our car. I also agree that the blown/huffercharged cars should be in their own class(es).

And although it may surprise some, we new car owners are not horned devils who came out of under earth solely to wreck drag racing and stock classes. We are just like you were at some point when you bought a car to go racing. You picked something that looked good, or met your interest for some other reason, possibly even because it had some "advantage." I bought my car for no other reason than wanting a piece of history, and my first love was always drag racing, which I missed over much of my life due to being a responsible husband and father, so now at this point in my life, what better than being able to live a dream? I had no idea that the car would have an advantage. But it does. So because of that, am I supposed to just sell it? I don't think that is a good solution either.

Rule changes are the only thing that will make anything better.

I don't completely agree on a lot of the "proposed" changes, and admit to a personal bias. But I do certainly agree that something is needed.

Then it is simply a question of what form the changes should take. If the form it takes, is something that drives the new cars into the garage permanently which seems to be the intent of some of the more radical suggestions, then that hardly seems very fair either. And to those who say that can't happen, look back to history. It has, it could, and if some have their way, it will happen again.

As for those who argue that we just need to "fix the factors", I suggest that in fairness, and to make sure that the playing field is as level as possible, then the hp factors on ALL cars should be previewed and "fixed". If the older cars are not that out of line, the review shouldn't hurt them as much as it does the newer cars.

A new group/set of classes, seems to be the most practical approach. I don't understand why us having a few new classes would upset anyone else's applecart, but it apparently does.

David
The New Hemi Guy

W J · 10-18-2010, 08:50 PM

Well said, David. I won't speak for the CJ cars, but I'll say this regarding the DP Challengers: These cars, especially the motors, pretty much have to be completely taken apart, re-done, and more often than not, re-done a few more times to make them anywhere close to race ready, let alone competitively race ready. They are FAR from a race-ready car when purchased from Mopar. It's taking MUCH
more work AND money by the buyers of these cars to bring out their potential...There surely is a place for the great new American Muscle...Re-class them, similar to what they've done w/the "H" Mopars, or whatever.....NHRA's holding this bag and it's up to them to straighten THEIR MESS out....some people here are putting the hate on the people who've bought and are racing these CJ and DP cars and it's surely not right.........put the squeeze on NHRA---where it belongs. Just my opinion of what's happened in Stock Eliminator this season....

Warren Lederer. WJ

Jack McCarthy · 10-20-2010, 12:07 PM

ken offers a solution, maybe not perfect but he offers a solution... most just bitch.

my idea is a A/B/C - FX classes that run outside of stock eliminator, heads up, finals on sunday ... when the cars get say 5 years old then they join us now that we have a good HP / POTENTIAL input from 5 years of heads ups !!!

i think it adds excitement to nhra, oem and the fans are exposed to the old win on sunday sell on monday mantra ?

jack

and to those no heads up racers... find a bracket race !

MikeFicacci · 10-20-2010, 12:13 PM

Taking the chance of getting yelled at by Ken, there is an awesome place for these cars to race. It's called NHRA Unleashed. For those of you who don't know, Unleashed is NHRA's answer to the NMRA/NMCA and is mainly heads-up racing directed towards the young crowd. Blowers, turbos, 2-feet tall intakes, and decent crowds in their 20's and 30's. This is actually the perfect place for these cars.

skills · 10-22-2010, 12:05 PM

Hey Mike I don't agree, NHRA unleashed is an okay idea but you want them same people at NHRA events. If you find a honest way to get the new cars in stock and maybe the foreign makes also you will get those same 20-30 year olds in the stands to watch the sportsman racers. If we can pull the factories in and more spectators it will raise the purse for everybody and maybe some of them may become racers themselves.

junior barns · 10-27-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skills

. If we can pull the factories in and more spectators it will raise the purse for everybody and maybe some of them may become racers themselves.

doubt it!!

Dan Wilson · 10-30-2010, 11:09 AM

The other night I was having cold ones and burning wood on the camp fire after installing the transmission, shifter and drive shaft in the new DP Challenger. I said to Gary what if when a car ran 1.25 under they automatically are out of the eliminator and are bumped into a run off the index heads up category for that race? This would deal with all out of line cars that happen to get discovered "PT Cruiser". They would run for their own Wally and maybe a money prize. You would see what these cars could run.
This is just a idea and It could be fun.
Dan Wilson

Larry Hill · 11-06-2010, 11:29 AM

My thoughts

Computer controlled cars in their own class.

Carbuerated cars in their own class.

Combine sticks and autos within each class.

Five year limit on engine spec. changes.

Remove non factory size cranks and rods from blueprint spec.

Twenty year old cars or older get Edelbrock heads.

No throttle by wire.
If the factories can fool NHRA on the initial HP. ratings of the engines, it would be no problem to fool NHRA on the capabilities of the computer. With throttle by wire several functions are available in real time : traction control, track position, adjusting E.T. for the perfect run, delay, and a host of other capabilites. No throttle by wire, the temptation is just too inviting!

10-14-2010, 04:52 PM	#31
Dave Casey VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hampden, MA Posts: 1,202 Likes: 233 Liked 795 Times in 165 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. My Thoughts I don't want any new classes with one exception. Many new cars have a blower or turbo, these cars need to be in their own class. I don't believe it will ever be possible to factor these cars to run with non pressurized cars. Make a 7,8,and 9 lb blown/turbo class, combine sticks and autos together. If you are truly looking toward the future, this will help as all manufacturers have or will have these cars . Non pressurized(normally aspirated) cars should stay as is or eliminate a few classes. We just need the new cars to be factored better to begin with. Now that there are a host of underfactored cars, 2 things should happen. 1. review and raise some factors soon 2. Make the factoring system in place more aggressive two last points ,,,, I personally think our cars are plenty fast now, I would hate to see any wt breaks lower than 7 lbs/hp. We don't need purpose built factory cars that are not made for street use originally. Stop accepting them now. I know the ones already accepted are here to stay, but enough of it.There are plenty of good performance cars out there that would fit right in with this category __________________ Dave Casey 1330 STK

10-14-2010, 05:46 PM	#32
House of Darts Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 346 Likes: 19 Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. How many posts have been devoted to the new cars? All the factory cars from the 60's have found their way into the "PROPER" class (more or less). I imagine that there were some GM and Ford racers that were pissed when Chrysler brought out their factory cars. Thank God that the BIG 3 have not decided to build smart cars. This a great opportunity to get the BIG3 and NHRA/IHRA to start posting $ for winning class. Higher payout by the BIG 3 for using their models and parts. More racers come out. More spectators come out. More cars are sold. And the saga continues. Crate motors are a great idea. Easing up on some of the blueprint specs/replacement parts is good too.If it gets easier to run S/SS, how about divisinals with just S/SS with 300 car counts. All done in 2 days.

10-18-2010, 05:18 PM	#33
NewHemi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 472 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. I have agreed all along that the new cars need new classes. I had hoped that would happen before we even tracked our car. I also agree that the blown/huffercharged cars should be in their own class(es). And although it may surprise some, we new car owners are not horned devils who came out of under earth solely to wreck drag racing and stock classes. We are just like you were at some point when you bought a car to go racing. You picked something that looked good, or met your interest for some other reason, possibly even because it had some "advantage." I bought my car for no other reason than wanting a piece of history, and my first love was always drag racing, which I missed over much of my life due to being a responsible husband and father, so now at this point in my life, what better than being able to live a dream? I had no idea that the car would have an advantage. But it does. So because of that, am I supposed to just sell it? I don't think that is a good solution either. Rule changes are the only thing that will make anything better. I don't completely agree on a lot of the "proposed" changes, and admit to a personal bias. But I do certainly agree that something is needed. Then it is simply a question of what form the changes should take. If the form it takes, is something that drives the new cars into the garage permanently which seems to be the intent of some of the more radical suggestions, then that hardly seems very fair either. And to those who say that can't happen, look back to history. It has, it could, and if some have their way, it will happen again. As for those who argue that we just need to "fix the factors", I suggest that in fairness, and to make sure that the playing field is as level as possible, then the hp factors on ALL cars should be previewed and "fixed". If the older cars are not that out of line, the review shouldn't hurt them as much as it does the newer cars. A new group/set of classes, seems to be the most practical approach. I don't understand why us having a few new classes would upset anyone else's applecart, but it apparently does. David The New Hemi Guy Last edited by NewHemi; 10-18-2010 at 11:54 PM.

10-18-2010, 08:50 PM	#34
W J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Paxton, Massachusetts Posts: 638 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. Well said, David. I won't speak for the CJ cars, but I'll say this regarding the DP Challengers: These cars, especially the motors, pretty much have to be completely taken apart, re-done, and more often than not, re-done a few more times to make them anywhere close to race ready, let alone competitively race ready. They are FAR from a race-ready car when purchased from Mopar. It's taking MUCH more work AND money by the buyers of these cars to bring out their potential...There surely is a place for the great new American Muscle...Re-class them, similar to what they've done w/the "H" Mopars, or whatever.....NHRA's holding this bag and it's up to them to straighten THEIR MESS out....some people here are putting the hate on the people who've bought and are racing these CJ and DP cars and it's surely not right.........put the squeeze on NHRA---where it belongs. Just my opinion of what's happened in Stock Eliminator this season.... Warren Lederer. WJ Last edited by W J; 10-18-2010 at 09:14 PM. Reason: add content....

10-20-2010, 12:07 PM	#35
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 477 Times in 117 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. ken offers a solution, maybe not perfect but he offers a solution... most just bitch. my idea is a A/B/C - FX classes that run outside of stock eliminator, heads up, finals on sunday ... when the cars get say 5 years old then they join us now that we have a good HP / POTENTIAL input from 5 years of heads ups !!! i think it adds excitement to nhra, oem and the fans are exposed to the old win on sunday sell on monday mantra ? jack and to those no heads up racers... find a bracket race ! __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

10-20-2010, 12:13 PM	#36
MikeFicacci Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 242 Likes: 1 Liked 19 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. Taking the chance of getting yelled at by Ken, there is an awesome place for these cars to race. It's called NHRA Unleashed. For those of you who don't know, Unleashed is NHRA's answer to the NMRA/NMCA and is mainly heads-up racing directed towards the young crowd. Blowers, turbos, 2-feet tall intakes, and decent crowds in their 20's and 30's. This is actually the perfect place for these cars. __________________ Mike Ficacci Stk 1010

10-22-2010, 12:05 PM	#37
skills Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Hershey,pa Posts: 187 Likes: 0 Liked 8 Times in 1 Post	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. Hey Mike I don't agree, NHRA unleashed is an okay idea but you want them same people at NHRA events. If you find a honest way to get the new cars in stock and maybe the foreign makes also you will get those same 20-30 year olds in the stands to watch the sportsman racers. If we can pull the factories in and more spectators it will raise the purse for everybody and maybe some of them may become racers themselves.

10-30-2010, 11:09 AM	#39
Dan Wilson Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 60 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. The other night I was having cold ones and burning wood on the camp fire after installing the transmission, shifter and drive shaft in the new DP Challenger. I said to Gary what if when a car ran 1.25 under they automatically are out of the eliminator and are bumped into a run off the index heads up category for that race? This would deal with all out of line cars that happen to get discovered "PT Cruiser". They would run for their own Wally and maybe a money prize. You would see what these cars could run. This is just a idea and It could be fun. Dan Wilson __________________ Dan Wilson, STK3171, K/SA

11-06-2010, 11:29 AM	#40
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,643 Likes: 1,941 Liked 10,731 Times in 2,233 Posts	Re: Stock and the late models, a solution. My thoughts Computer controlled cars in their own class. Carbuerated cars in their own class. Combine sticks and autos within each class. Five year limit on engine spec. changes. Remove non factory size cranks and rods from blueprint spec. Twenty year old cars or older get Edelbrock heads. No throttle by wire. If the factories can fool NHRA on the initial HP. ratings of the engines, it would be no problem to fool NHRA on the capabilities of the computer. With throttle by wire several functions are available in real time : traction control, track position, adjusting E.T. for the perfect run, delay, and a host of other capabilites. No throttle by wire, the temptation is just too inviting! __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817 Last edited by Larry Hill; 11-06-2010 at 03:40 PM.