Big Money Class Races-our thoughts

Bob Sherwood · 04-06-2021, 08:34 PM

After 2 very impressive Sportsman races (Georgia & St Louis ) this spring, I have some questions concerning the low number of racers that attended. I know there are endless reasons for not attending , but what I am wondering is the format a factor in attendance ? By that , what I mean is, since we race at Nhra races for a fraction of the purse offered at these races, is the 20K plus to win with limited round payout needed to encourage attendance OR would a 10K to win with good round money to 2nd round get better attendance ?? I am only asking because I want these races to succeed and be there next year !!! I am afraid to ask for opinions because I dont want this to turn into a xxxx show. Thanks Bob

rk3800 · 04-06-2021, 09:13 PM

We didn't make it to the first race in Ga. and I'm really sorry we weren't there, because I understand we missed a great time. Not very often or ever are we allowed to compete for this kind of money. We are Stockers or in our case Super Stock. This type of money should be a huge draw for any type of class racer. Those who chose not to be there, shame on you. Everyone was great and treated us like the stars that we are. The starting line crew was second to none. Some very fast cars were there, Larry Zavala was there with some of his friends from Ca. He came to win, making five or six passes on test and tune Tue. He came terribly close and was a BAD competitor. Personally I think the BIG DOLLARS is the draw and not so much round money. We will make every race this year and next if something like this offered again. Thanks Tyler and all the Bohannon family.

DG · 04-06-2021, 11:39 PM

We watched the whole event on line, rooting for the west coast guys. I've got to say Larry Zavala, Phillip Mandella, Tony Mandella and Larry Gilley all did some very impressive driving. Not to mention their cars were all fast. Good job guys, you represented Division 7 well.

Darin Grossi

jmcarter · 04-07-2021, 07:50 AM

Second chance races like YoKen’s and Tyler’s are definitely the right approach instead of permitting buybacks. I’m anxious to see the turnout at Numidia, know I’m looking forward to it. Hope it pulls some D6 and D7 cars.

Mike Delahanty · 04-07-2021, 10:32 AM

Bob, several thoughts on this subject to serve up.

From my personal experience, there are a couple of key success factors that make these races attractive, fun and successful.

Exclusivity – Stock and SS only. Bo said it best – “a race where STK/SS is celebrated and not tolerated”.

The ability to race more than once. 2-3 races including an optional Combo

Some entertainment. At SGMP it was the 64 car Shootout. At St. Louis it was the CIC race. At Ken’s race later this summer it will be the Top Stock Race. And the evening Racer parties are icing on the cake.

NHRA came pretty close to getting this right last year with the Speedweek at Columbus that had the LODRS and the SportsNATIONALS back to back. I think the back to back Division races were a brilliant idea and see that that concept is back in several places this year with National Open/LODRS doubles. But the same issues with an NHRA race were there….long waits, Top Sportsman crash cleanups, yada-yada-yada……

One of the biggest challenges for the promoter is date, location and cost. I think the two recent races were too early to have broad appeal. Both tracks appeared to be great choices for the racer. While St. Louis was great for the racer, I would have concerns about the cost to the promoter especially if scheduled in “Prime Time”.

The idea of several Regional Associations getting together for a joint race has been bantered about but faces the problem of “when and where”. Bringing Buckeye, GLSSA, Can-Am, Midwest and Heartland Associations together could make for a great race. And we have talked about an All-Star Challenge race that pits 4-8 from each Association …… that would be the entertainment. But where is the right track in the right spot to get good support from these Association racers?

I raced at Ken’s Numidia race last year and it was fantastic. From what I’ve seen so far it may be the best balance of date, location, entry fee, and payout. The Numidia track is well suited for this type of race with a beautiful location, solid prep and lots of places for watching… especially the hill overlooking the finish line. It was mostly D1 racers last year but I expect a good D3 turnout this year, especially with the D1 Numidia LODRS race and National open the week before.

I think Michael Beard’s Class Nationals may have had the success formula pretty close. The late August date for the second race may have been it’s undoing.

Stock and SS racing is headed for some good times with these independent events. Thanks to the promoters and the supporting companies.

Randall Klein · 04-07-2021, 11:25 AM

A couple of thoughts:

Location: consider Tri-State in Earlville, Iowa

Spectators: Invite area car clubs for Fri/Sat (Camaro/Mustangs etc), give them an 1/8 mile pass Friday night ($10 entry fee, track keeps $), maybe get some of them hooked, Best Appearing, some special recognition, free racers picnic for the clubs, bounce houses for little ones, parade lap with children

Gamblers race?

Associations pool monies & maybe points series (Best 3 of ?) extra points as tie breakers for Q positions etc

Lucky Dog pass...ONE ticket at $10 each for ONE loser

Stock SS racers are a creative group, we certainly could come up with things that the nimrods at NHRA can't envision

One last thought, although the focus is in S SS cars, sometimes a little FILLER would be nice.....S/ST or SG door cars, or even fast na bracket cars that may see the value of moving up to class cars....S SS racers could advise/mentor newbies

Carguy49 · 04-07-2021, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcarter

Second chance races like YoKen’s and Tyler’s are definitely the right approach instead of permitting buybacks. I’m anxious to see the turnout at Numidia, know I’m looking forward to it. Hope it pulls some D6 and D7 cars.

Jim, some good points. The future of races like these looks promising. To draw more cars from D6 and D7 what are the chances of having an event west of the Mississippi??

GUMP · 04-07-2021, 01:18 PM

I think that many of us are in this for fun memories, photos, trophies, and bragging rights.

My preference would be to have more heads-up racing. Class Eliminations, Top Stock, Mid Stock, Bottom Stock, Factory Stock, CIC, etc. One thing I really like about the NHRA is that you get a classy, high quality trophy.

novassdude · 04-07-2021, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Sherwood

After 2 very impressive Sportsman races (Georgia & St Louis ) this spring, I have some questions concerning the low number of racers that attended. I know there are endless reasons for not attending , but what I am wondering is the format a factor in attendance ? By that , what I mean is, since we race at Nhra races for a fraction of the purse offered at these races, is the 20K plus to win with limited round payout needed to encourage attendance OR would a 10K to win with good round money to 2nd round get better attendance ?? I am only asking because I want these races to succeed and be there next year !!! I am afraid to ask for opinions because I dont want this to turn into a xxxx show. Thanks Bob

I am with Bob I personally would rather see 10K to win and good round money. The odds of a lot of us getting to the 20k is slim it is tough sledding out there. But the odds that a guy/gal can get a lucky round win or two and get a little some thing back is much more appealing to me. I also like the multiple races. one thought on doing two races would be to switch it up run one on a sportsman ladder and the second on a pro ladder. Just to help mix it up. With a combo or tough luck race for the people that didn't make it past the first couple rounds. It is also a built in filler to help with down time.

Location and timing is always going to be an issue. There are the hitters and retired people that are going to be willing to travel across the country for an event. The average working Joe just cant afford to travel 2000 miles one way for a prayer at big money.

Just some thoughts Best of luck to all that are putting these races on and the people making the trip.

Randall Klein · 04-07-2021, 03:24 PM

Gump: if you want a classy trophy, check out the ones I donated to the revival; of course they don't have the history of the Wally, on the other hand Wally's are very diluted right now*

Another random thought: how about asking Sportsman MFGs (those mainly targeting our group) to help in S SS races, as we are the main customers and because we tear things up, we are repeat customers

* as I stated in an earlier post, S SS are creative people, and although I like my design, there can be more attractive trophies designed

04-06-2021, 08:34 PM	#1
Bob Sherwood Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: South Dakota Posts: 153 Likes: 70 Liked 388 Times in 60 Posts	Big Money Class Races-our thoughts After 2 very impressive Sportsman races (Georgia & St Louis ) this spring, I have some questions concerning the low number of racers that attended. I know there are endless reasons for not attending , but what I am wondering is the format a factor in attendance ? By that , what I mean is, since we race at Nhra races for a fraction of the purse offered at these races, is the 20K plus to win with limited round payout needed to encourage attendance OR would a 10K to win with good round money to 2nd round get better attendance ?? I am only asking because I want these races to succeed and be there next year !!! I am afraid to ask for opinions because I dont want this to turn into a xxxx show. Thanks Bob

04-06-2021, 09:13 PM	#2
rk3800 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 187 Likes: 0 Liked 101 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts We didn't make it to the first race in Ga. and I'm really sorry we weren't there, because I understand we missed a great time. Not very often or ever are we allowed to compete for this kind of money. We are Stockers or in our case Super Stock. This type of money should be a huge draw for any type of class racer. Those who chose not to be there, shame on you. Everyone was great and treated us like the stars that we are. The starting line crew was second to none. Some very fast cars were there, Larry Zavala was there with some of his friends from Ca. He came to win, making five or six passes on test and tune Tue. He came terribly close and was a BAD competitor. Personally I think the BIG DOLLARS is the draw and not so much round money. We will make every race this year and next if something like this offered again. Thanks Tyler and all the Bohannon family.

04-06-2021, 11:39 PM	#3
DG Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Central Sierra's Posts: 164 Likes: 455 Liked 446 Times in 97 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts We watched the whole event on line, rooting for the west coast guys. I've got to say Larry Zavala, Phillip Mandella, Tony Mandella and Larry Gilley all did some very impressive driving. Not to mention their cars were all fast. Good job guys, you represented Division 7 well. Darin Grossi

04-07-2021, 07:50 AM	#4
jmcarter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Richmond Hill GA (and Port Ludlow WA) Posts: 4,293 Likes: 2,364 Liked 3,165 Times in 969 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts Second chance races like YoKen’s and Tyler’s are definitely the right approach instead of permitting buybacks. I’m anxious to see the turnout at Numidia, know I’m looking forward to it. Hope it pulls some D6 and D7 cars. __________________ Jim Carter 2340 Super Stock 2340 SST/2340 Stock Set another place at the table

04-07-2021, 10:32 AM	#5
Mike Delahanty VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,200 Likes: 0 Liked 271 Times in 53 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts Bob, several thoughts on this subject to serve up. From my personal experience, there are a couple of key success factors that make these races attractive, fun and successful. Exclusivity – Stock and SS only. Bo said it best – “a race where STK/SS is celebrated and not tolerated”. The ability to race more than once. 2-3 races including an optional Combo Some entertainment. At SGMP it was the 64 car Shootout. At St. Louis it was the CIC race. At Ken’s race later this summer it will be the Top Stock Race. And the evening Racer parties are icing on the cake. NHRA came pretty close to getting this right last year with the Speedweek at Columbus that had the LODRS and the SportsNATIONALS back to back. I think the back to back Division races were a brilliant idea and see that that concept is back in several places this year with National Open/LODRS doubles. But the same issues with an NHRA race were there….long waits, Top Sportsman crash cleanups, yada-yada-yada…… One of the biggest challenges for the promoter is date, location and cost. I think the two recent races were too early to have broad appeal. Both tracks appeared to be great choices for the racer. While St. Louis was great for the racer, I would have concerns about the cost to the promoter especially if scheduled in “Prime Time”. The idea of several Regional Associations getting together for a joint race has been bantered about but faces the problem of “when and where”. Bringing Buckeye, GLSSA, Can-Am, Midwest and Heartland Associations together could make for a great race. And we have talked about an All-Star Challenge race that pits 4-8 from each Association …… that would be the entertainment. But where is the right track in the right spot to get good support from these Association racers? I raced at Ken’s Numidia race last year and it was fantastic. From what I’ve seen so far it may be the best balance of date, location, entry fee, and payout. The Numidia track is well suited for this type of race with a beautiful location, solid prep and lots of places for watching… especially the hill overlooking the finish line. It was mostly D1 racers last year but I expect a good D3 turnout this year, especially with the D1 Numidia LODRS race and National open the week before. I think Michael Beard’s Class Nationals may have had the success formula pretty close. The late August date for the second race may have been it’s undoing. Stock and SS racing is headed for some good times with these independent events. Thanks to the promoters and the supporting companies. __________________ Been racing Stock and S/S cars since 1973.

04-07-2021, 11:25 AM	#6
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 785 Likes: 45 Liked 316 Times in 67 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts A couple of thoughts: Location: consider Tri-State in Earlville, Iowa Spectators: Invite area car clubs for Fri/Sat (Camaro/Mustangs etc), give them an 1/8 mile pass Friday night ($10 entry fee, track keeps $), maybe get some of them hooked, Best Appearing, some special recognition, free racers picnic for the clubs, bounce houses for little ones, parade lap with children Gamblers race? Associations pool monies & maybe points series (Best 3 of ?) extra points as tie breakers for Q positions etc Lucky Dog pass...ONE ticket at $10 each for ONE loser Stock SS racers are a creative group, we certainly could come up with things that the nimrods at NHRA can't envision One last thought, although the focus is in S SS cars, sometimes a little FILLER would be nice.....S/ST or SG door cars, or even fast na bracket cars that may see the value of moving up to class cars....S SS racers could advise/mentor newbies

04-07-2021, 01:18 PM	#8
GUMP VIP Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Shelby, NC Posts: 1,817 Likes: 2,153 Liked 2,336 Times in 549 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts I think that many of us are in this for fun memories, photos, trophies, and bragging rights. My preference would be to have more heads-up racing. Class Eliminations, Top Stock, Mid Stock, Bottom Stock, Factory Stock, CIC, etc. One thing I really like about the NHRA is that you get a classy, high quality trophy.

04-07-2021, 03:24 PM	#10
Randall Klein Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 785 Likes: 45 Liked 316 Times in 67 Posts	Re: Big Money Class Races-our thoughts Gump: if you want a classy trophy, check out the ones I donated to the revival; of course they don't have the history of the Wally, on the other hand Wally's are very diluted right now* Another random thought: how about asking Sportsman MFGs (those mainly targeting our group) to help in S SS races, as we are the main customers and because we tear things up, we are repeat customers * as I stated in an earlier post, S SS are creative people, and although I like my design, there can be more attractive trophies designed