Race this brand new '57 Plymouth?

[sg1838]

Bill,

When you fist posted about cost, I was going to make a comment about how with inflation the money that you spent in the 60's was probably worth more than you thought today. But, you've already done the calculations, and quite honestly I'm surprised to see that it's really that little. Obviously, you can't do much with $7,500 today speed-wise, but I almost wonder if the cost to go a specific ET hasn't changed over the years.

What did it cost to build a car in the 60's that would run in the mid-9's? Adjusted for inflation, would that really be much different than today? I'm not sure...

Like you said, people's perceptions of speed had changed a lot over the years. It amazes me the HP that bone-stock cars have today, and nobody thinks twice about it. My 1994 Suburban with a 350 is rated at something like 210 hp. My 2006 Pacifica with a 6-cylinder makes something like 225 hp. Yet, I hook my enclosed trailer up to my Suburban occasionally, but I couldn't imagine doing so with my Pacifica.

Upon browsing RacingJunk.com, it does seem quite feasible to put together something that could run probably in the mid-12's for about $7,500...less if you'd be willing to live with a roadster like a bantam or something like that. Using a car like that, you could probably get in to the mid-10's pretty easily, though the only thing you could run with it is Super Pro.

Plus, you know as well as I do that any car that you would run today would be much safer than anything of the same speed from 40 to 50 years ago. Of course, it wouldn't be a classic! [:-happy-:]

Now, if you said you wanted to run the SAME class for $7,500, well, then we'd have a problem.

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

[Dan Fletcher]

Jason,
I can understand your position totally. I'm borrowing a car that might be worth "God knows how much", but it doesn't really matter...it might as well be worth ten bucks...

[Michael Beard]

>> by the time I was old enough to drive the great cars I had to choose from were those classics like the '78 Aspen

Hey now! ;-) Maybe my 1980 Plymouth version is a 'step up'? Ricardo Monteban says so... ;-)

How's the "new" ride, Dan?


Michael Beard
Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

[Jim Hashbarger]

All,
There is breaking news on the 57 Plymouth. See link below. The vault is full of water.):

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...reaking%20News

Jim Hashbarger
NHRA 395959
IHRA 41562

[Jack McCarthy]

full of water ???? PERFECT !

57 plymouth was a friggin BOAT anyway !!!!!!!!!!

captain jack

[Jim Cimarolli]

If the darn transmission needs to be worked on I sure hope they don't call me! Anybody ever had to work on one of those old cast iron tourqeflites?

Jim Cimarolli

[bill dedman]

Jason Oldfield asked:

>>> "What did it cost to build a car in the 60's that would run in the mid-9's? Adjusted for inflation, would that really be much different than today? I'm not sure..." <<<

That question has a problem associated with it.

The problem is, due to the quantum leap that performance took due to technological changes between 1960 and 1969, it becomes very complicated to try to say what it would cost to run 9.50's.

By that, I mean, what did we have to work with in terms of motive power in 1960? 348 Chevy motors, FE Ford motors with no really good heads, and 413 Wedge Mopars with mediocre heads. The 392 Hemi was available, of course, and was actually running some high 9-second passes (Big JOHN MAZMANIAN's '41 Willys A/GS car), but it would be a couple of years before he, or anybody else in A/GS ran a legitimate 9.50. I think.

The A/G Supercharged engines had stroker cranks, girdles, gobs of porting, and a 6:71 blower to propel their 2,400-pound doorslammer bodies to what were then, considered astronomical times (high 9's.)

So, in 1960, you'd need an A/Altered (25% engine setback) and probably a blower to run 9.50's on gasoline. This would in no way be a street-legal car. Also, the blower and high-gear-only clutch (dual-disk) setup would be pretty expensive.

Fast-forward to 1969.

By then, the 426 Hemi had made its appearance in the '64 Mopars, and Ford's Hi-Riser FE 427's were in Fairlanes, Galaxies, and certain Mercurys, while Chevrolet had gone through the 409's, Z-11's and the 396 "Mystery engine" in 1964 that became the canted-valve "Rat Motor" that is still very much with us today in everything from Stock to PRO Stock.

So, going 9.50s in 1969 was a WHOLE LOT easier than it had been just 9 years earlier, due to the new engines that were available.

So, the answer would be pretty different, you see...

Of course, this "new tech horsepower" wasn't necessarily CHEAP, but it was widely available, and deals could be found.

I'd say that by 1969, a 9.50 car could be built for probably five or six thousand dollars. That would be a '62 Nova with a blown 427/Turbo 400 drivetrain, for instance...

That computes to about $27.500 "2007 dollars."

Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but that's the way I remember it.

I suppose that today, if you took a 5.0 Mustang and turbocharged it to within an inch of its life, you could probably go 9.50 with it for a lot less than that... once or twice, but the short block would die unless you spent some real money on strong stuff.

So, maybe the cost of speed hasn't gone up as much as I'd thought....

This has been an interesting exercise, I think.

Hey, Jason, I'll bet everybody asks you the same thing, ("Any relation to 'Barney' Oldfield???")



Bill

[sg1838]

Jason,
I can understand your position totally. I'm borrowing a car that might be worth "God knows how much", but it doesn't really matter...it might as well be worth ten bucks...

Dan,

It's somewhat funny because I can't tell you how many people have come up to me and asked me if I'd consider selling my car. My stock response now is, "You don't have enough money." I know it's crazy because I could build one hell of a race car for this, but if somebody offered me $100,000 for my car as a rolling chassis, I'd turn them down. That would be a no-brainer for me. $1,000,000 would probably be hard to turn down, but nobody's going to offer me that, so I don't have to worry about that ever happening.

I wonder if you also have this never ending fear of something happening to your prized possession. My fear doesn't keep me from racing my car, because that's all I've ever known the car to do, but I'd be absolutely heartbroken if something ever did happen to it. I've already told my wife that if the house is ever on fire, I will get her and the kids out first, but if there's ANY way I can go back into the garage, I will to get that car out.

Stupid dads having good relationships with their sons and teaching them about cars...

Hey now! ;-) Maybe my 1980 Plymouth version is a 'step up'? Ricardo Monteban says so... ;-)

Can you say, Corinthian Leather??? I actually drove a '78 Aspen for a while, which is why I picked it. It was my grandmother's car, and I actually remember beating like a 73 Plymouth Roadrunner in a street race in that car. The Roadrunner didn't have a chance...that thing weighed like 10,000 lbs. and had the same 318 that the Aspen did. It just wasn't puke tan with 4 doors like the Aspen was.

Hey, Jason, I'll bet everybody asks you the same thing, ("Any relation to 'Barney' Oldfield???")

Yep, everybody asks me, and I tell everybody, "Not that I know of." I've always wanted to spend some real time doing my genealogy, but everytime I do I get frustrated because the stupid Internet genealogy sites can't even find my dad when I give them his birth date, date of death, and social security number. Not to mention the guy was in the Army...maybe he was like double-top secret or something before he decided to become a plumber...

All that said, I AM related to the "Barney" Oldfield who was a member of the Motown Missile Pro Stock team. That's my uncle, Dick Oldfield, who actually drove the car in 1970 before Don Carlton took over in 1971 (Chrysler actually forced my uncle out of the driver's seat, as they felt a "better" driver would help the longevity of the Torqueflite, so they tabbed Carlton as the new driver, who then refused to drive the car unless a 4-speed was put in it, which they proceeded to do).

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

[sg1838]

All,
There is breaking news on the 57 Plymouth. See link below. The vault is full of water.):

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...reaking%20News

Jim Hashbarger
NHRA 395959
IHRA 41562

I wonder, how in God's name is this possible? Didn't they think of this when they built this big concrete box? A couple of holes drilled in the bottom here and there would probably have worked miracles.

They said in one of the articles that the car still feels solid, which I don't doubt. Whoever is the first person to sit in that car though better make sure they have their wet suit on, otherwise it's going to look like they just got done peeing themselves...

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

[Jack McCarthy]

it was rusted into junk... should have left her buried in respect to all those dead 57 vehicles whom passed on before her !!!!

flying my flag at 1/2 mast today... captain jack