Making a profit in drag racing ???? - Page 3

X-TECH MAN · 08-18-2010, 09:54 AM

There are some pretty good arguements on both sides of the fence here. I have "Been there and done that" back when it was cheaper but just thought it would be a good thread to get a lot of conversation going and forget about all of the complainning and bitching for a little while. Keep the coversation going and remember we all just love drag racing no matter what association you run or what catagory your current combo runs and how you look at the big picture.

Jimi B · 08-18-2010, 10:26 AM

+1 For making money OFF of drag racing. That has always been the idea for me. Thats why I got in the engine business, and am getting a lot more involved with efi tuning. Likewise, part of my interest in class racing is a resume builder.

Other than that, I have always said you dont make money racing, you make money in sales/marketing/advertising. Your number 1 job is to get your sponsors name out there. Luckily, one of the best ways to do that is to win races!

However I would say the best chance to make money in drag racing is running high dollar bracket races. Of course this takes the best parts, and a bad *** driver, but I have a handful of friends that are right on the verge of bein in the black, or in it. One of which is a good friend of mine was a top dragster racer that I helped work on Jeff Wilsons funny car with. He grew up in drag racing but has only been driving for maybe 4 years. But this dude no matter what he does he is just a winner. Doesnt matter if its poker, golf, racing rc cars... He even won the world champion ship for hopping low riders with hydraulics.. Oh yeah and he is a rapper and even has a record ha. Anyway in 08 he decided he was gonna jump up to alcohol funny car... Sold his top dragster blower car, started putting the funny car together, and in the meant time bracket raced a small block dragster.. Well NHRA added about $10k in safety to the alcy cars, so he switched gears and decided he is going to chase all the high dollar bracket races.. Sounded crazy to me at the time.. Its so hard to be the best out there in bracket racing.. The best of the best can be put out by just a somebody. Well.. Maybe he wasnt crazy, since both of his dragsters he bought in the last year have paid for themselves and then some...

Here is a link to a video that is his audition to Who Wants To Be A Race Car Driver

Robert Simpson · 08-18-2010, 10:34 AM

I think what Michael said is true. I believe that if you keep the fun factor in it, it goes a long way! But, I would lean towards a crate motor stocker, or a slower S/St car. Both can be used for foot brake racing etc. The stocker has to run racing gas, that checks at events, but runs smaller tires, no trans brakes, and a carb and pieces that you can find anywhere, in stock can only run IHRA or Sportsman Association races. The S/St car can be built to run on pump gas, is not required to have all the safety things like a 9.90 car, can run foot brake or box classes, can run more associations etc. If one kept there overhead down and focused on what it take to win, and attends races with a potential higher return, then in time I do believe that you could start to make a profit. But in ther real world you will NEVER make back your money. So you do it for the pure fun and competition that this sport offers.

Robert Simpson · 08-18-2010, 10:38 AM

I would like to know how "Professional bracket racers" make it? Most I have seen travel all over with a very nice set up and double enter etc. They are not always in the winners circle. I would like to know, who pays for it? How does the racers make a steady house payment, insurance, truck payment etc? Or are most hitters just that, on a payroll to drive only? Just curious on how that work?

Jeff Teuton · 08-18-2010, 10:55 AM

A profit? You have got to be kidding!

Jimi B · 08-18-2010, 11:02 AM

Oh yeah... That is his music in that video as well hahahah.

Mark Yacavone · 08-18-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimi B

+1 For making money OFF of drag racing. That has always been the idea for me. Thats why I got in the engine business, and am getting a lot more involved with efi tuning. Likewise, part of my interest in class racing is a resume builder.

Other than that, I have always said you dont make money racing, you make money in sales/marketing/advertising. Your number 1 job is to get your sponsors name out there. Luckily, one of the best ways to do that is to win races!

However I would say the best chance to make money in drag racing is running high dollar bracket races. Of course this takes the best parts, and a bad *** driver, but I have a handful of friends that are right on the verge of bein in the black, or in it. One of which is a good friend of mine was a top dragster racer that I helped work on Jeff Wilsons funny car with. He grew up in drag racing but has only been driving for maybe 4 years. But this dude no matter what he does he is just a winner. Doesnt matter if its poker, golf, racing rc cars... He even won the world champion ship for hopping low riders with hydraulics.. Oh yeah and he is a rapper and even has a record ha. Anyway in 08 he decided he was gonna jump up to alcohol funny car... Sold his top dragster blower car, started putting the funny car together, and in the meant time bracket raced a small block dragster.. Well NHRA added about $10k in safety to the alcy cars, so he switched gears and decided he is going to chase all the high dollar bracket races.. Sounded crazy to me at the time.. Its so hard to be the best out there in bracket racing.. The best of the best can be put out by just a somebody. Well.. Maybe he wasnt crazy, since both of his dragsters he bought in the last year have paid for themselves and then some...

Here is a link to a video that is his audition to Who Wants To Be A Race Car Driver

Is this for real?

Michael Beard · 08-18-2010, 02:52 PM

>> However I would say the best chance to make money in drag racing is running high dollar bracket races.

That's not necessarily the case. In big money bracket racing, the initial entry fee doesn't look as high compared to what the winner's purse is, but you also have 1 and sometimes 2 rounds of buybacks. You're also looking at higher car counts, which combined with the buybacks means that you're going to have to go 9 or even 10 rounds to make the finals. Every additional round cuts your percentage chance of winning dramatically.

Also, big money races are notoriously top-heavy, so everybody wants to split, as far back as 8 cars. I was both the winner *and* the runner-up of the Sunday $10K race when I doubled-entered the World Footbrake Challenge in '08. I was hot-lapping the car like mad, and when they started talking split, I didn't even get involved, and let them sort things out, as I just needed to go down the track again and keep my head in the game. As it turns out, after the split and giving a cut of the winnings to a sponsor who paid for the 2nd entry, I think I ended up with about HALF, and that was for Win *AND* RU! Still a great day's work, don't get me wrong, and the highlight of my career, but the numbers don't end up as good as they look... unless you're John Labbous, Jr.

(refer to the K&N Spring Fling 20's...)

Back to rounds... if your round-win percentage is 75%, your chance of winning 1 round is 75%. Winning two consecutive round is .75x.75 = 56%, and so on. Your chance of winning a big money bracket race is 8%, while your chance of winning a 6-round NHRA/IHRA Class race is 18%. You can accidentally win a 4-round race!

I actually made a spreadsheet at one time that factored in entry fees, payouts, fuel costs/travel time, # of races in a weekend, etc., to generate a "factor" of potential return on investment of one race vs another.

Right now, IHRA races offer the best return on investment, in my opinion: More races in less days, and although it's a totally different subject as to why the car counts are lower right now, the fact is that we've seen some 4 and 5-round races, for around $5K. At any bracket race, you'll be lucky to get your entry fee back after 5 rounds. Additionally, most bracket races aren't going to get near the coverage that an IHRA or NHRA event will get -- and that's going to make a lot of difference to sponsors. NHRA events have a higher potential payout, but you're also going to pay more (in advance), you're going to have to be there for 4-5 days (losing some work days), and you're probably going to have to go 7 rounds to win, cutting your chances in half. On the plus side, sponsors like the prestige of NHRA events. So once again, risk vs reward.

>> A profit? You have got to be kidding!

I love ya, Jeff, but you're right.... you're not going to make a profit with a DragPak or Hemi car! You could duplicate my car/truck/trailer for under $40K, and that's something you can pay off... and I have. It took time and help from some very good people to get started, but today, even including maintenance, rebuilds, and updates, every penny of my racing operation is free and clear, paid off. I've spent money on performance for class racing, too. The car is half a second quicker than when I bought it -- technically money that I didn't need to spend, but 1) I wanted to, and 2) it's a strategic advantage.

'Nuff for now...

X-TECH MAN · 08-18-2010, 03:07 PM

Great post Michael.

Dwight Southerland · 08-18-2010, 04:49 PM

Great post, Michael.

I raced Stock and SS from 1974-1990 and made money 13 years. 3 years were taken out to build cars. I never got rich, but consistency, watching expenses, building my own stuff, being $$ shrewd and being willing to race where money could be made helped make positive cash flow. It also helped to have a car that could do double duty in a .90 category.

A Pure Stock IHRA car might be a place to look. Low class Stocker could also be made to work. Look at Jody Lang and Tommy Mattingly. The goal would have to be to cover expenses, not to make a living. Nothing wrong with your fun paying for itself.

08-18-2010, 09:54 AM	#21
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? There are some pretty good arguements on both sides of the fence here. I have "Been there and done that" back when it was cheaper but just thought it would be a good thread to get a lot of conversation going and forget about all of the complainning and bitching for a little while. Keep the coversation going and remember we all just love drag racing no matter what association you run or what catagory your current combo runs and how you look at the big picture.

08-18-2010, 10:26 AM	#22
Jimi B Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 226 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? +1 For making money OFF of drag racing. That has always been the idea for me. Thats why I got in the engine business, and am getting a lot more involved with efi tuning. Likewise, part of my interest in class racing is a resume builder. Other than that, I have always said you dont make money racing, you make money in sales/marketing/advertising. Your number 1 job is to get your sponsors name out there. Luckily, one of the best ways to do that is to win races! However I would say the best chance to make money in drag racing is running high dollar bracket races. Of course this takes the best parts, and a bad *** driver, but I have a handful of friends that are right on the verge of bein in the black, or in it. One of which is a good friend of mine was a top dragster racer that I helped work on Jeff Wilsons funny car with. He grew up in drag racing but has only been driving for maybe 4 years. But this dude no matter what he does he is just a winner. Doesnt matter if its poker, golf, racing rc cars... He even won the world champion ship for hopping low riders with hydraulics.. Oh yeah and he is a rapper and even has a record ha. Anyway in 08 he decided he was gonna jump up to alcohol funny car... Sold his top dragster blower car, started putting the funny car together, and in the meant time bracket raced a small block dragster.. Well NHRA added about $10k in safety to the alcy cars, so he switched gears and decided he is going to chase all the high dollar bracket races.. Sounded crazy to me at the time.. Its so hard to be the best out there in bracket racing.. The best of the best can be put out by just a somebody. Well.. Maybe he wasnt crazy, since both of his dragsters he bought in the last year have paid for themselves and then some... Here is a link to a video that is his audition to Who Wants To Be A Race Car Driver

08-18-2010, 10:34 AM	#23
Robert Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 808 Likes: 7 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? I think what Michael said is true. I believe that if you keep the fun factor in it, it goes a long way! But, I would lean towards a crate motor stocker, or a slower S/St car. Both can be used for foot brake racing etc. The stocker has to run racing gas, that checks at events, but runs smaller tires, no trans brakes, and a carb and pieces that you can find anywhere, in stock can only run IHRA or Sportsman Association races. The S/St car can be built to run on pump gas, is not required to have all the safety things like a 9.90 car, can run foot brake or box classes, can run more associations etc. If one kept there overhead down and focused on what it take to win, and attends races with a potential higher return, then in time I do believe that you could start to make a profit. But in ther real world you will NEVER make back your money. So you do it for the pure fun and competition that this sport offers.

08-18-2010, 10:38 AM	#24
Robert Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 808 Likes: 7 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? I would like to know how "Professional bracket racers" make it? Most I have seen travel all over with a very nice set up and double enter etc. They are not always in the winners circle. I would like to know, who pays for it? How does the racers make a steady house payment, insurance, truck payment etc? Or are most hitters just that, on a payroll to drive only? Just curious on how that work?

08-18-2010, 10:55 AM	#25
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? A profit? You have got to be kidding! __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

08-18-2010, 11:02 AM	#26
Jimi B Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 226 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? Oh yeah... That is his music in that video as well hahahah.

08-18-2010, 02:52 PM	#28
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? >> However I would say the best chance to make money in drag racing is running high dollar bracket races. That's not necessarily the case. In big money bracket racing, the initial entry fee doesn't look as high compared to what the winner's purse is, but you also have 1 and sometimes 2 rounds of buybacks. You're also looking at higher car counts, which combined with the buybacks means that you're going to have to go 9 or even 10 rounds to make the finals. Every additional round cuts your percentage chance of winning dramatically. Also, big money races are notoriously top-heavy, so everybody wants to split, as far back as 8 cars. I was both the winner and the runner-up of the Sunday $10K race when I doubled-entered the World Footbrake Challenge in '08. I was hot-lapping the car like mad, and when they started talking split, I didn't even get involved, and let them sort things out, as I just needed to go down the track again and keep my head in the game. As it turns out, after the split and giving a cut of the winnings to a sponsor who paid for the 2nd entry, I think I ended up with about HALF, and that was for Win AND RU! Still a great day's work, don't get me wrong, and the highlight of my career, but the numbers don't end up as good as they look... unless you're John Labbous, Jr. (refer to the K&N Spring Fling 20's...) Back to rounds... if your round-win percentage is 75%, your chance of winning 1 round is 75%. Winning two consecutive round is .75x.75 = 56%, and so on. Your chance of winning a big money bracket race is 8%, while your chance of winning a 6-round NHRA/IHRA Class race is 18%. You can accidentally win a 4-round race! I actually made a spreadsheet at one time that factored in entry fees, payouts, fuel costs/travel time, # of races in a weekend, etc., to generate a "factor" of potential return on investment of one race vs another. Right now, IHRA races offer the best return on investment, in my opinion: More races in less days, and although it's a totally different subject as to why the car counts are lower right now, the fact is that we've seen some 4 and 5-round races, for around $5K. At any bracket race, you'll be lucky to get your entry fee back after 5 rounds. Additionally, most bracket races aren't going to get near the coverage that an IHRA or NHRA event will get -- and that's going to make a lot of difference to sponsors. NHRA events have a higher potential payout, but you're also going to pay more (in advance), you're going to have to be there for 4-5 days (losing some work days), and you're probably going to have to go 7 rounds to win, cutting your chances in half. On the plus side, sponsors like the prestige of NHRA events. So once again, risk vs reward. >> A profit? You have got to be kidding! I love ya, Jeff, but you're right.... you're not going to make a profit with a DragPak or Hemi car! You could duplicate my car/truck/trailer for under $40K, and that's something you can pay off... and I have. It took time and help from some very good people to get started, but today, even including maintenance, rebuilds, and updates, every penny of my racing operation is free and clear, paid off. I've spent money on performance for class racing, too. The car is half a second quicker than when I bought it -- technically money that I didn't need to spend, but 1) I wanted to, and 2) it's a strategic advantage. 'Nuff for now... __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

08-18-2010, 03:07 PM	#29
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? Great post Michael.

08-18-2010, 04:49 PM	#30
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 2,001 Likes: 64 Liked 780 Times in 194 Posts	Re: Making a profit in drag racing ???? Great post, Michael. I raced Stock and SS from 1974-1990 and made money 13 years. 3 years were taken out to build cars. I never got rich, but consistency, watching expenses, building my own stuff, being $$ shrewd and being willing to race where money could be made helped make positive cash flow. It also helped to have a car that could do double duty in a .90 category. A Pure Stock IHRA car might be a place to look. Low class Stocker could also be made to work. Look at Jody Lang and Tommy Mattingly. The goal would have to be to cover expenses, not to make a living. Nothing wrong with your fun paying for itself.