Doing an NFL on the NHRA Divisions...

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Ken Haase

There's no question that if you live West of the Mississippi River the dragstrips are fewer in number and many more miles apart. But, you can do all the divisional realignment in the world and it's not going to move any starting line closer to your home. Acton's already drawing as many D5 racers as D6 racers and it's still a major tow for most racers from both Div's. Same thing for Medford, pretty large percentage of Div 7 racers of the total entered. Same holds true for Woodburn. It's customary for the announcer to play up the rivalry between 6 & 7 in the later rounds. In any event, can't you claim 1 or 2 out of division races if you want?

Compared to Div4 and Div5, racers in the East do have it much better in terms of choice. Especially if you add both sanctioning bodies together.

One other consideration is the HUGE amount of land in the West that is public land; BLM, U.S. Forest Svc., etc. That means WE THE PEOPLE own it. However, I'm pretty sure the new, incoming, Eco-friendly administration has no plans to construct any dragstrips on any public land. That would just piss-off you guys in the East anyway (they would all be factored tracks). Not to mention all our tree-huggin', Spotted Owl and snail darter lovin' neighbors.

I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure it would still be cheaper to tow 2 or 3 hundred miles farther on average, than it would be to sell your home and move to a part of the country with a higher concentration of dragstrips. It's a trade-off.

Thanks Ken,

I don't know about your trade-off theory, because if it were only 2-3 hundred miles farther on avg, then I wouldn't have brought up this topic...especially since under the current format you can only claim two out-of-division points races for your chosen divisions totals. Let's say you live in Denver, Co. and you are chasing points...why not be able to replace the eastern Div. 5 races with truly the next closest races to your home; Las Vegas (750), Acton, Mt. (525), and Noble, Ok (630). Still long tows, but not nearly as bad as having to go out to either Earlville, Ia. (900+), Cordova, Il (900+), or Brainerd, Mn (1050+), and that's just one way!!! Perhaps if NHRA would allow a racer to pick their division, but race at any divisions races they so choose, then that would help level the field a bit, however moving isn't the answer. When the divisional layout as we know it was made, it took into account the inclusion of Canada's provinces. However, as the decades have changed, so has the involvement of Canadian tracks (with the lone exception of Mission, Bc.). Thus the once averaged sized Div's 5,6, & 7 compared to Div's 1 & 3, became overbloated. Therefore, when you look at the Divisional layout (and only focus on the lower 48 states), you'll see the enormous discrepency of the east compared to the west---and for those of you who don't like my thoughts, I challenge you to come out here, live in our shoes and try to do what you've done out there as easily & inexpensively as you do out there (only ground travel, no air travel to all of your races)...it won't happen...again just ask Kevin Helms, or Mike Tueffel the next time you see them...

Oh and another thing, I did the math and for the five division 7 races I traveled to, I traveled 1,353 miles (one way). If I lived in Philly, and raced Div. one, I could've gone to all seven of their races with 634 miles to spare! If I lived in Columbus, Oh. that mileage would've gotten me to all of div three's races with 42 miles to spare. Now, if however I lived in Denver, Co. that mileage would've only gotten me to Bandimere Speedway, Great Bend, Topeka, and half-way to Noble, Ok's divisional---what's fair about that???

Steve & 63 Corvette: I hope NHRA does get a reality check, however I'm concerned that with the funds taken from those lost sponsors, they'll be coming back to us with even higher entry fees (as if they haven't gone up enough these last two years!!!

Ed: I'm sorry for your retirement situation, however my thoughts are not BS. If you walked in our shoes you'd find yourself going to much fewer races (at least on this level), than you get to do there. I shouldn't have to trade in my warmer nicer winter weather just so I can be close to more racing facilities...If NHRA would've focused on the lower 48 in the first place (instead of Canada & Mexico too), then the parity would've been done years ago. I know of some racers who gave up class racing because they got tired of the long tows and felt that NHRA didn't care about their thoughts like mine, so I'm speaking for them and others like us.

[Hans Wilhelm]

Actually, I think you can name your division. New Yorker Dan Fletcher raced as a Division 7 comp guy this year and I think Peter Biondo claimed div. 2 in either Stock or SS a few years back. I believe you just have to claim which division at your first race.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Thanks Ken,

I don't know about your trade-off theory, because if it were only 2-3 hundred miles farther on avg, then I wouldn't have brought up this topic...especially since under the current format you can only claim two out-of-division points races for your chosen divisions totals. Let's say you live in Denver, Co. and you are chasing points...why not be able to replace the eastern Div. 5 races with truly the next closest races to your home; Las Vegas (750), Acton, Mt. (525), and Noble, Ok (630). Still long tows, but not nearly as bad as having to go out to either Earlville, Ia. (900+), Cordova, Il (900+), or Brainerd, Mn (1050+), and that's just one way!!! Perhaps if NHRA would allow a racer to pick their division, but race at any divisions races they so choose, then that would help level the field a bit, however moving isn't the answer. When the divisional layout as we know it was made, it took into account the inclusion of Canada's provinces. However, as the decades have changed, so has the involvement of Canadian tracks (with the lone exception of Mission, Bc.). Thus the once averaged sized Div's 5,6, & 7 compared to Div's 1 & 3, became overbloated. Therefore, when you look at the Divisional layout (and only focus on the lower 48 states), you'll see the enormous discrepency of the east compared to the west---and for those of you who don't like my thoughts, I challenge you to come out here, live in our shoes and try to do what you've done out there as easily & inexpensively as you do out there (only ground travel, no air travel to all of your races)...it won't happen...again just ask Kevin Helms, or Mike Tueffel the next time you see them...

Oh and another thing, I did the math and for the five division 7 races I traveled to, I traveled 1,353 miles (one way). If I lived in Philly, and raced Div. one, I could've gone to all seven of their races with 634 miles to spare! If I lived in Columbus, Oh. that mileage would've gotten me to all of div three's races with 42 miles to spare. Now, if however I lived in Denver, Co. that mileage would've only gotten me to Bandimere Speedway, Great Bend, Topeka, and half-way to Noble, Ok's divisional---what's fair about that???

Steve & 63 Corvette: I hope NHRA does get a reality check, however I'm concerned that with the funds taken from those lost sponsors, they'll be coming back to us with even higher entry fees (as if they haven't gone up enough these last two years!!!

Ed: I'm sorry for your retirement situation, however my thoughts are not BS. If you walked in our shoes you'd find yourself going to much fewer races (at least on this level), than you get to do there. I shouldn't have to trade in my warmer nicer winter weather just so I can be close to more racing facilities...If NHRA would've focused on the lower 48 in the first place (instead of Canada & Mexico too), then the parity would've been done years ago. I know of some racers who gave up class racing because they got tired of the long tows and felt that NHRA didn't care about their thoughts like mine, so I'm speaking for them and others like us.

Show me ANYWHERE it is written that life is fair.If i lived in the areas of Div. 4/5/6/7 I probably wouldn't be racing in NHRA class racing,plain and simple.Some people have it and some people dont.Maybe you would be happy if 1/2 of our tracks closed up and our travel milage would double or triple.That's leveling the play field in your mind I guess.Face facts, unless you have money coming out of your *** you live in a ****ty place if you want to chase points The housing market is pretty weak now,houses are going cheap.
you can use the money you'll save for plenty of long johns and electric socks and I'm sure you can find an indoor job to stay warm in our arctic winters.

Ed F.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Tracy Robbins

Sounds like the sportsman racers may become a little more important as both sanctioning bodies will rely on the "back gate" once again for profits. There may be more pit space as the pro's will park it before they race out of their own pocket, unlike sportsman racers who do it because we love it. Who knows...they may be running all sportsman classes w/ no quota before you know it!

Tracy, that would definitely make me smile, because when I go to national events, I'll race Stock, however I'll watch Super Stock--something about those Darts, Cuda's, and other wheel standing entries!

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Show me ANYWHERE it is written that life is fair.If i lived in the areas of Div. 4/5/6/7 I probably wouldn't be racing in NHRA class racing,plain and simple.Some people have it and some people dont.Maybe you would be happy if 1/2 of our tracks closed up and our travel milage would double or triple.That's leveling the play field in your mind I guess.Face facts, unless you have money coming out of your *** you live in a ****ty place if you want to chase points The housing market is pretty weak now,houses are going cheap.
you can use the money you'll save for plenty of long johns and electric socks and I'm sure you can find an indoor job to stay warm in our arctic winters.

Ed F.

Thanks but no thanks Ed, I left Colorado to get away from needing stuff like that...it's funny that people from Div's 1-3-5 (most notibly the latter two) come out here to the valley of the sun to get away from that kind of frosty cold "stuff" (I wasn't raised to use such words as you did, sorry). No, I wouldn't want half of your tracks to close (you missed my point for thinking that), because a few of them I hope/pray to someday acquire the funds needed to race at...because of their history within the NHRA.

A new Idea I have (that might even get respect from you Ed), is that NHRA either expand the out of division races one could claim to 3 (instead of the current two), or allow national open races to become points earning races too---they should do this given that in some places the events charge the racers the same entry fees as regular divisionals.

Now how do you feel about that idea Ed???

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Thanks but no thanks Ed, I left Colorado to get away from needing stuff like that...it's funny that people from Div's 1-3-5 (most notibly the latter two) come out here to the valley of the sun to get away from that kind of frosty cold "stuff" (I wasn't raised to use such words as you did, sorry). No, I wouldn't want half of your tracks to close (you missed my point for thinking that), because a few of them I hope/pray to someday acquire the funds needed to race at...because of their history within the NHRA.

A new Idea I have (that might even get respect from you Ed), is that NHRA either expand the out of division races one could claim to 3 (instead of the current two), or allow national open races to become points earning races too---they should do this given that in some places the events charge the racers the same entry fees as regular divisionals.

Now how do you feel about that idea Ed???

You cant change the fact that if you live in the middle of nowhere(racing wise) travel is going to kill you if you're on a budget.That's the whole basic fact that this thread is about.If you think it's not so then just pack your bags and move to Disneyland into the Fantasyland area of the park.Enough,I'm done.

Ed F.

I'm sorry if my use of the word **** offends your moral fiber.Maybe you should have gone into the ministry.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

You cant change the fact that if you live in the middle of nowhere(racing wise) travel is going to kill you if you're on a budget.That's the whole basic fact that this thread is about.If you think it's not so then just pack your bags and move to Disneyland into the Fantasyland area of the park.Enough,I'm done.

Ed F.

I'm sorry if my use of the word **** offends your moral fiber.Maybe you should have gone into the ministry.

You're funny Ed, and I even gave you kudos in another segment of this site (about Mike Meier & his Spirit), and your car as well. Ministry?? Not my calling in life, but I wish you would've responded to my latest idea...maybe that was your response, I duno...

Unless any of you other racers have thoughts to share as well, them I'm done with this too, however I hope at least my latest two idea's will be given a serious look by those of you who have connections with NHRA???

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

You're funny Ed, and I even gave you kudos in another segment of this site (about Mike Meier & his Spirit), and your car as well. Ministry?? Not my calling in life, but I wish you would've responded to my latest idea...maybe that was your response, I duno...

Unless any of you other racers have thoughts to share as well, them I'm done with this too, however I hope at least my latest two idea's will be given a serious look by those of you who have connections with NHRA???

Gary;
If chasing points are that important then including opens in the points series will cut down some travel,but I bet it wont change things for the guys who are low budget.(0% of us race with the reaqlization that we wont make it to the top 10 in national points.Top 10 in the division usually requires 7 to 8 divisionals.I got lucky and made it to #5 and #7 in div.1.the other 6 years I was cannon fodder for the regulars.(I sat out 2004,lack of funds).And it's getting harder every year to place with the quality of racers out there.Like I've said 100 times before,life never was,isn't now and never will be fair.Some will always have the upper hand.Cant make it any plainer than that.

Ed

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Gary;
If chasing points are that important then including opens in the points series will cut down some travel,but I bet it wont change things for the guys who are low budget.(0% of us race with the reaqlization that we wont make it to the top 10 in national points.Top 10 in the division usually requires 7 to 8 divisionals.I got lucky and made it to #5 and #7 in div.1.the other 6 years I was cannon fodder for the regulars.(I sat out 2004,lack of funds).And it's getting harder every year to place with the quality of racers out there.Like I've said 100 times before,life never was,isn't now and never will be fair.Some will always have the upper hand.Cant make it any plainer than that.

Ed

Well Said Ed, but I'll give you two examples of Div V racers that (based on what we all can see just by checking out the points standings), would be helped if NHRA would decide to allow national open races to count as divisionals:

1. Randy Hyman...He earned 40 pts and finished 105th out of 146 Div. V stock racers. If Bandimere Speedways "Night of Fire & Thunder" race which is a national open counted for points, and he repeated that 2nd rnd finish, he would've leap frogged up to 64th place. His tow would be 24 to 34 miles (round trip! It would be like he was in your Division???)! and if he could tow the approx. 120 miles from his Lakewood, Co. home to Pueblo, Co (125 miles, maybe), then he'd have 3 divisional points counting races w/o having to leave Colorado...kind of sounds like Nj., Oh, or Tx. to me??? On top of that he would've vaulted past Bob Gipson to finish 39th in Div. V with less than 300 miles covering those three races (round trip). A better finish at any of those races and he would've been a player in his divisions points chase.

2. Steve Hagberg...He earned 330 points, and finished 4th officially (but is tied for 2nd also in Div. V). With those same races in mind he would've saved nearly 2000 miles worth of driving, the fuel expense, and the extra time involved could he have replaced his Earlville, Ia. with the Kearney, Ne. open, plus his Noble, Ok race with either Pueblo, Co., or Pierre, Sd.'s opens. Finally he could've replaced his Las Vegas divisional with the Bandimere national open (that would've been a 675 mile one-way alone savings!!!).

Thus my initial purpose for this thread...there are solutions out there (and every little bit would help), question is will NHRA hear to any of them? I remember reading last season that some facet of the NHRA was going to be the supporter of us the sportsman racers "THE BACK BONE OF THE NHRA"...well I was born in Missouri (THE SHOW ME STATE), so ok NHRA, don't just show me, SHOW US!!!

HAVE A GREAT AND SAFE THANKSGIVING, CHRISTMAS, & A SUCCESSFUL 2009 ED!