Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? - Page 20

Alan Roehrich · 06-26-2016, 06:43 PM

No, Mark, we have been out a little over two years, again, due to various reasons. I'm not posting so much as a vote, but rather just to bring the facts about AA to light.

However, we do intend to return, it's just that the road back is not as short and easy as we'd like. We're a lot closer to the 396/375 aluminum head engine than the ZL-1, which went on the back burner. We do plan to build the ZL-1, maybe even as a stick combination. But we need to do the 396 just to get back on our feet and back to the track, it's been a rough couple of years.

And I can see the point some have about the 10.60 index. The problem is that at Indy, for example, you need to be solidly in the 9.70 zone, in hot and humid weather, to be pretty certain to make the field. No doubt that a few can do it, at least they have an 80% chance, if nothing goes wrong. Maybe if I work real hard, and we have some good things happen, we might be one of those that can.

As far as voting goes, I'll bow to Rayburn's rule, I respect the guy, we don't vote until we return.

HR9121 · 06-26-2016, 11:06 PM

Must be past these guys bedtime, nothing for 5 hours now!

GUMP · 06-26-2016, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Moock

GUMP, Jeff`s challenger Runs A,B,C/SA, is not racing as a Drag Pak car, Different rules on rear suspension on stock production cars per rule book, look it up.Tom

Understood. I'm just telling you what the NHRA allows for these cars. There is no way that you can make the factory control arms work. Have you looked under a late model GTO or Corvette stocker lately?

Bobby DiDomenico · 06-27-2016, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUMP

The NHRA allows the drag pack, COPO, and Cobra Jet suspension for the 2008 up production based combinations.

Interesting, I would never, ever, have expected that. Had a long conversation with another stock eliminator racer a few years back when the new cars were coming in with essentially 4 link suspensions to compete against cars with 1950's leaf or coil spring suspensions. His feelings were non-stock suspension meant Super Stock.
I'm sure all the folks with the new cars feel otherwise. Does anyone know why NHRA allowed these cars into Stock versus placing them into Super Stock? I was asked that just last week at a cruise night.

Jim Bailey · 06-27-2016, 09:29 AM

Doug Duell took a showroom stock Challenger and built the first A/SA " new car". NHRA checked the car from top to bottom before it was approved. Travis had it up on jack stands with the wheels and tires off, making sure it had the Factory components and that the suspension mods where legal according to the NHRA rule book. Many photos were taken . ( feel free to correct me if I'm miss informed ). Friends, those days are over. NHRA has approved the use of the factory built race cars - Copos, Drag Pacs and Cobra Jets with the use of an approved showroom engine combos for traditional stock eliminator. They may have to conform to "some" of the rules, like the correct hood. But they're legal per NHRA - As I said earlier, tuff pill to swallow for the old timers. But get use to it, they're here to stay and there's more coming. Correcting, and having the correct index for your class is the only chance the old combos have. Bottom line is Jeff's car is a Drag Pac Challenger and its legal per NHRA. End of story. I'm gonna race!

GUMP · 06-27-2016, 09:38 AM

It is not my belief that the four link was done to spite anyone or to gain an advantage. It is just a reality that the way the newer independent rear suspensions are configured does not allow for a workable solid axle conversion. The GTO's and Corvette's have been allowed to run torque arms, etc. for quite some time, so this is nothing new. When I started working on my BIW Camaro in 2010, I sent photo's to GM of a torque arm under the car. I got no response. When the 2012 COPO prototype was at the PRI I asked the NHRA if that would be legal for Stock Eliminator. They said yes, but with a 12-bolt. So that is what I went home and built. I am still waiting for the new engine specification to be published by the NHRA.........

Mickey Whaley · 06-27-2016, 10:30 AM

Man sorry to say they just hit the wall

Joseph Teuton · 06-27-2016, 03:44 PM

Hey where did everyone go??

Jim Bailey · 06-27-2016, 04:49 PM

Norwalk AA/S index informal survey -

Brian / Ryan McClanahan - change to 10.70
Jim Bailey - change to 10.75
Gene Jordan - change to 10.80 ( really doesn't care )
Randy Wilkes - change to 10.80

There , that's a start !

Keith Bennett · 06-27-2016, 09:51 PM

Keith Bennett change to 10.80

06-26-2016, 06:43 PM	#191
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,126 Likes: 1,583 Liked 1,892 Times in 423 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? No, Mark, we have been out a little over two years, again, due to various reasons. I'm not posting so much as a vote, but rather just to bring the facts about AA to light. However, we do intend to return, it's just that the road back is not as short and easy as we'd like. We're a lot closer to the 396/375 aluminum head engine than the ZL-1, which went on the back burner. We do plan to build the ZL-1, maybe even as a stick combination. But we need to do the 396 just to get back on our feet and back to the track, it's been a rough couple of years. And I can see the point some have about the 10.60 index. The problem is that at Indy, for example, you need to be solidly in the 9.70 zone, in hot and humid weather, to be pretty certain to make the field. No doubt that a few can do it, at least they have an 80% chance, if nothing goes wrong. Maybe if I work real hard, and we have some good things happen, we might be one of those that can. As far as voting goes, I'll bow to Rayburn's rule, I respect the guy, we don't vote until we return. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

06-26-2016, 11:06 PM	#192
HR9121 Live Reporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Bern, NC Posts: 3,467 Likes: 146 Liked 3,363 Times in 731 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? Must be past these guys bedtime, nothing for 5 hours now! __________________ James Williamson W200 J/SA. SS/JA

06-27-2016, 09:29 AM	#195
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? Doug Duell took a showroom stock Challenger and built the first A/SA " new car". NHRA checked the car from top to bottom before it was approved. Travis had it up on jack stands with the wheels and tires off, making sure it had the Factory components and that the suspension mods where legal according to the NHRA rule book. Many photos were taken . ( feel free to correct me if I'm miss informed ). Friends, those days are over. NHRA has approved the use of the factory built race cars - Copos, Drag Pacs and Cobra Jets with the use of an approved showroom engine combos for traditional stock eliminator. They may have to conform to "some" of the rules, like the correct hood. But they're legal per NHRA - As I said earlier, tuff pill to swallow for the old timers. But get use to it, they're here to stay and there's more coming. Correcting, and having the correct index for your class is the only chance the old combos have. Bottom line is Jeff's car is a Drag Pac Challenger and its legal per NHRA. End of story. I'm gonna race!

06-27-2016, 09:38 AM	#196
GUMP VIP Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Shelby, NC Posts: 1,827 Likes: 2,178 Liked 2,359 Times in 557 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? It is not my belief that the four link was done to spite anyone or to gain an advantage. It is just a reality that the way the newer independent rear suspensions are configured does not allow for a workable solid axle conversion. The GTO's and Corvette's have been allowed to run torque arms, etc. for quite some time, so this is nothing new. When I started working on my BIW Camaro in 2010, I sent photo's to GM of a torque arm under the car. I got no response. When the 2012 COPO prototype was at the PRI I asked the NHRA if that would be legal for Stock Eliminator. They said yes, but with a 12-bolt. So that is what I went home and built. I am still waiting for the new engine specification to be published by the NHRA......... Last edited by GUMP; 06-27-2016 at 12:42 PM.

06-27-2016, 10:30 AM	#197
Mickey Whaley VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,220 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? Man sorry to say they just hit the wall

06-27-2016, 03:44 PM	#198
Joseph Teuton Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: HOUMA, LA Posts: 440 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? Hey where did everyone go?? __________________ JOSEPH TEUTON 4044 STK,SS,

06-27-2016, 04:49 PM	#199
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? Norwalk AA/S index informal survey - Brian / Ryan McClanahan - change to 10.70 Jim Bailey - change to 10.75 Gene Jordan - change to 10.80 ( really doesn't care ) Randy Wilkes - change to 10.80 There , that's a start !

06-27-2016, 09:51 PM	#200
Keith Bennett Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lakeland FL Posts: 199 Likes: 463 Liked 70 Times in 36 Posts	Re: Has anyone changed their mind about AA/SA index? Keith Bennett change to 10.80 __________________ Keith A/S 2990/Terri A/SA 2991 "Imagine what you'd attempt, if you knew you could not fail!"