Indy

[Charley Downing]

So basically, what we have learned here is if your -1.15 and faster you want no AHFS at Indy. My question is how the F**K is AHFS ever going to work if you take away the one race where it has a chance to do what it was designed to do (equal out under factored combos). I mean come on if you can run -1.25 under or faster in 85 degrees, 29.35 bar and 3500 plus feet of air you might have either A over spent on an engine to win $4000-$7000 in total event prize money or B you combo is flat under factored. Also, if you are in category A your more than likely one of the people complaining about this topic.

Hard to believe all the ***** clowns with -1.40 plus under car want no AHFS at Indy.

I mean at the end of the day who really cares anymore. Indy has become so watered down the past 2 years its just another national event now. Finals are no longer run on Monday, only 2 qualifying passes, Parking is a joke, class winner bump in gone, no tear down. Class money all but gone (thanks VP for hanging in there until the bitter end for us). I mean the A/S challenge was the coolest deal in stk for years and now its turned into the LS1 under factored showdown.
The prestige of winning Class or the Eliminator in STK or SS is all but gone. This is coming from a guy that has not missed racing at Indy in 17 years.

Not to change subjects but can someone tell me why INDY is still $50 more to enter then other national events. For years the NHRA excuse was its a 6 day event and it cost more to run.

[B Parker]

Charlie I agree with some of what you have said. I don't have a car that will run 1.40 under in the heat at Indy. But I would like a chance to see were I stand with the faster cars of my class. Could you tell us what year the AHFS was implemented? How many rule changes have there been that have increased ET's since then? I believe the bar for the AHFS needs to be changed to reflect those rule changes. We can agree if you can run 1.40 under in the heat at Indy your combo probably needs HP but there are a lot of different combos in the morning air on kill that can hit the 1.20 mark including mine. I love to go to Indy as much as anyone but I won't unless they let it be a no AHFS race. And I'm not alone. BP

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

So basically, what we have learned here is if your -1.15 and faster you want no AHFS at Indy. My question is how the F**K is AHFS ever going to work if you take away the one race where it has a chance to do what it was designed to do (equal out under factored combos). I mean come on if you can run -1.25 under or faster in 85 degrees, 29.35 bar and 3500 plus feet of air you might have either A over spent on an engine to win $4000-$7000 in total event prize money or B you combo is flat under factored. Also, if you are in category A your more than likely one of the people complaining about this topic.

Hard to believe all the ***** clowns with -1.40 plus under car want no AHFS at Indy.

I mean at the end of the day who really cares anymore. Indy has become so watered down the past 2 years its just another national event now. Finals are no longer run on Monday, only 2 qualifying passes, Parking is a joke, class winner bump in gone, no tear down. Class money all but gone (thanks VP for hanging in there until the bitter end for us). I mean the A/S challenge was the coolest deal in stk for years and now its turned into the LS1 under factored showdown.
The prestige of winning Class or the Eliminator in STK or SS is all but gone. This is coming from a guy that has not missed racing at Indy in 17 years.

Not to change subjects but can someone tell me why INDY is still $50 more to enter then other national events. For years the NHRA excuse was its a 6 day event and it cost more to run.

Charlie Bob, you've made some valid points. Here's a fix to the AHFS-at-Indy dilemma. How 'bout NHRA leaves the AHFS in effect as it is, but indulges all us "**** clowns" who believe Stock and Super Stock are performance classes and obviously spend too much money pursuing that goal. As stated, the AHFS can stand as it is, but indexes -- with all of NHRA's performance enhancements over the years -- have become a joke. All indexes should be, say, a half-second quicker. Then, to solve the issue of too many classes, make all classes one-pound breaks. Bet I know how a poll on those changes would turn out.

[Mike Jones]

Does it make sense to retain the AHFS for the Eliminator, but remove it for Class?

[MR DERBY CITY]

The sport would be served better if WE , the racers, left our AGENDAS in the trailers as we entered the track at INDY....INDY was forever , SO SPECIAL ....but now it’s just another race, and doesn’t deserve AHFS dispensation. .......

[SS/GSI]

To me the answer is simple; however requires more work for NHRA and perhaps given the shrinking and aging population of our tech department, rising costs of operations and logistics for NHRA, it might not be realistic.

More Class Runoffs and more heads ups. Whether the class runoffs are at divisionals or nationals, we need more of them. The more we have, the higher likelihood of the AHFS working. There will be a greater potential of competitors going a second under thus more combinations being reviewed semi annually.

Case in point the "Baby Gators 2021" where almost 200 racers showed up to run for $1200.00 while an hour down the road there was a Stock/Super Stock race on for $10,000.00 which only two dozen racers attended...why? The reason why is because we still want to run for the trophy(Wally), and even though lots of competitors say they race for $$$ or complain about payouts, races which include class runoffs well out attend the ones without them.

Bring back class racing, and even if the entry fees have to be increased to supplemented or offset the costs incurred by NHRA, they will still be attended in higher numbers than those without.

As for the heads up factor, I don't know if going to a 1lbs weight break only, combining sticks and autos or any other combining of classes is the right or wrong decision.

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by SS/GSI

To me the answer is simple; however requires more work for NHRA and perhaps given the shrinking and aging population of our tech department, rising costs of operations and logistics for NHRA, it might not be realistic.

More Class Runoffs and more heads ups. Whether the class runoffs are at divisionals or nationals, we need more of them. The more we have, the higher likelihood of the AHFS working. There will be a greater potential of competitors going a second under thus more combinations being reviewed semi annually.

Case in point the "Baby Gators 2021" where almost 200 racers showed up to run for $1200.00 while an hour down the road there was a Stock/Super Stock race on for $10,000.00 which only two dozen racers attended...why? The reason why is because we still want to run for the trophy(Wally), and even though lots of competitors say they race for $$$ or complain about payouts, races which include class runoffs well out attend the ones without them.

Bring back class racing, and even if the entry fees have to be increased to supplemented or offset the costs incurred by NHRA, they will still be attended in higher numbers than those without.

As for the heads up factor, I don't know if going to a 1lbs weight break only, combining sticks and autos or any other combining of classes is the right or wrong decision.

Also if you plan to try and attend any national events you need grade points. Only place to get those is at the divisional or national open races. Too bad that race was on top of the Baby Gators. If it was another weekend it would have had plenty of cars.

[rboyle]

I ran Indy the last 2 years and aside from the Covid abbreviated version this past year where it was 1 qualifier and fastest pair run for class championship, it has been a great race. 2019 threatened to be tear down barn city. It got watered down when NHRA didn't bring tents to conduct more tear downs but the threat was real. I think the AHFS which burned me this year needs no modification. It sucks but it works. Having it at Indy will hurt some racers. I'm sure we'll see a lot of 1000' runs and hard braking penalties.
Indy will always remain special because it is one of the only National Events where you have a qualified field with alternates.
There is also the almost definite chance that it will be a mineshaft race. The bump the last few years has been -.85 so having 61 or more cars hitting -.85 is almost a given.

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

So will indy 21 be run like indy 20? Quickest car in 2nd round of qualifier is class winner ?

[james schaechter]

https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...t=19643&page=2

Charley, you make some good points.I don’t agree with all of them. I do think that the core issue is that NHRA execs barely tolerate us. If there were more incentives to perform like points for top qualifiers, setting records and more heads up opportunities that would help.

And Charley- Glad to see you have had a change of heart on making AHFS work! LOL