Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? - Page 2

Notch1320 · 11-11-2007, 11:06 PM

The soft lock clutch was brand new from McLeod along with the .330 disc, and the flywheel I had in the car was sent in to them to have the heat sheild replaced. The entire assembly came from McLeod in a box as a matched set-up. I will measure the disc, but with this thinking, McLeod would have had to have set it up for a .280 disc, and then set me the unit labled as a .330.

This could very well be, but how would I personally be able to check this?

The clutch that was in the car was sent to McLeod by me after I got the car. It was some old out dated long style clutch, but had no adjustment at all even though I was told I was getting a true soft lock unit in the deal. I sent them the clutch & flywheel, and after we figured everything out, we told them to set me up with a new soft lock, and it returned along with my old flywheel with a new heat shield. The entire unit that I have in the car now was in McLeods hands, and any error on disc thickness would be on them. The clutch hasn't worked since I received it. No air gap, and creeping with RPM at launch badly! The car would shift, but would start to creep at 4800RPM or so.

Strick · 11-12-2007, 01:37 PM

What gap are you trying to achieve? I am no expert, but have run the Soft-Lok for two year. At times I ran as small as .040 gap with no creep. I currently run .060 gap. I was told the larger gap will cause the initial hit to be harder. making it hard to find the sweet spot in the setup. I'm curious what gap other people use?

Notch1320 · 11-12-2007, 01:58 PM

McLeod says, .070 to .085. Many people I have talked to run them at .050. Some people don't even check air gap, and use the RPM to determine it based on if the car creeps or not. My car creeps at around 4800RPM, and I need to try to get this thing to hold in the mid 6K range.

Jeff Lee · 11-12-2007, 05:09 PM

I had a "custom" built flywheel built for me by McLeod. Always had problems getting the clutch fork geometry, air-gap, etc. correct. I got it to work but it always seemed there were compromises. Sometime later I started using Rob Youngblood's Advanced Clutches. I had his new 10" unit which included the the Advanced flywheel. When I bolted it all up, everything was different. It was after discussion with Rob & comparing some other flywheels that we determined the McLeod Flywheel was built wrong and it was to far offsett from the crank (towards the trans). THe Advanced flywheel was built correctly. Once installed and all adjustments were made I didn't have those McLeod problems again.
I also have heard from more than one source that McLeod has sent out the incorrect thickness disk. Sure you can shim it out but after spending so much money, why should you have the ***-ache of R&R'ing the bell until YOU get it right? Another thing I know, Rob rejects a good 90% of clutch disks he receives due to rockwell hardness and other problems. Does McLeod? I know it's hard to scrap a unit once you own it but with all these problems (and I'll bet the problem goes back to poor quality control at McLeod), I'd send it to Advanced for his upgrade or buy an entirely new Advanced unit. At least when you call Rob, he picks up the phone...
Good luck...

Notch1320 · 11-12-2007, 06:11 PM

Jeff,

I couldn't agree with you more. Rob at Advanced is the man when it comes to customer service. I have had some dealings with him, and am talking to him now about moving to his clutch. I bought a bellhousing from him, that ended up being to deep for my current application. He was up front, and always there when we called on him. He refunded my money for the bellhousing, and I ended up buying a new one from Lakewood, but only because I was at a race, and needed it that same day. In the future... I will have an Advanced clutch in my car.

As for now, I just need to get the car to make a full pass, and start working out the bugs without throwing any more money at it. I have been on the phone with McLeod most of the morning, and as it looks, they set it up wrong from the start. Fred Taylor had me measure from the inside of the PP cover to the finger, and said if properly set up it should read .290. When I measured mine, it is at .240. There is the .050 that I can't seem to fine. I am waiting to hear back from him to confirm this, and if so, the unit will be returned to McLeod to be set up correctly. I am not about to settle for just adding shims to my clutch, like Jeff said, for the money, it should be set up right the first time!

I have fought this car and clutch problems since May of this year, and have made numerous calls to McLeod. In and out with the trans, bell, and clutch at least 50 times adjusting everything possible, and a simple mistake on their part has cost me hundreds of dollars in fuel, entry fees, and my own time.

Hopefully, everything will work out with a fix by McLeod, and I can get my race car out to make a full pass, and start sorting things out. Basically 2007 was a wash for me...

More to come....

Notch1320 · 11-12-2007, 09:17 PM

McLeod called back, and said that the .240 would be to my advantage??? They also said that it should be set to .290, so I can't imajine why they would send me something set incorrectly.

I am sending the clutch back to them, to check out, and set correctly. They said they were going to set it up, and apply .035 air gap, and try to figure out the bearing measurment from that to help with the geometry. Hopefully, they can remedy this, and I can get a full pass in the car before the end of the season, and before my next trip to the middle east at the end of Dec.

Jeff Lee · 11-12-2007, 11:33 PM

Man, I hope they get it right for you. The heat shield they added needs to be checked as well. Some are thicker than others. I hate the thought of a soldier being in Iraq thinking about his race car that didn't even make a pass all year! Hopefully you'll get that great wheels up launch before you ship out. That'll be a little more stimulating at least!
Good luck!

Notch1320 · 11-28-2007, 12:44 AM

I sent the clutch back to McLeod, and they called me today. They said that my clutch was in perfect working order? When I questioned them about my clutch measuring .240 between the fingers and the cover, vs. them telling me that it should read .290, they wouldn't answer me, and just kept saying, I don't know... but your clutch is good? I was at work, and couldn't really talk to them, but I will be calling back to get some more answers, and measurments.

While on the phone, he asked me if my car was cable operated, or not. It is. He then gave me an extention number of the cable operated expert there at McLeod. I will be calling to talk to him tomorow also. After all the calls I have mane to McLeod Tech. why was I never pointed in the " cable operated expert's" direction?

All good questions...

One thing that someone questioned me about today while discussing this, was if my bellhousing block plate could a different thickness from what was in the car before.

I initially had an old McLeod bellhousing in the car, and we made our first passes using this old beat up bell housing. The trans broke as a result of the bellhousing not being properly aligned due to the bore hole being so badly chewed up that you couldn't get an accurate measurment at all. After the trans was fixed, we installed a Lakewood 51201, and have been having air gap issues ever since. Could the block plate thickness have anything to do with my air gap issue?

The Lakewood plate that I have measures .130 thick. I have no idea what the McLeod plate was, but I will be sure to ask McLeod tomorrow about this. Anyone have any thoughts on if this could cause an issue with air gap?

Evan Smith · 11-29-2007, 07:56 AM

Shawn,

I also, was unable to get the right amount of air gap with a .330 disc. Problem is the bell is just not deep enough and you can't get the cable to provide enough throw for proper release wihtout problems. I MUST run a max of a .280 disc for everything to fit, along with a McLeod adjustable throwout bearing. I run about .080-090-inch air gap and this still gives me enough gap between the fingers and the bearing when the clutch pedal is relaxed.

Evan

Notch1320 · 11-29-2007, 08:39 AM

Evan,

What bellhousing are you running, and also who's cable? I haven't had much luck with finding an adjustable cable long enough to work. I have a McLeod quadrant, and firewall adjuster on the car now. I don't even use the firewall adjuster, so I may nust remove it to give me a little more at the other end. Any help here would be appreciated.

By the way, I can't wait to see the New SS/A Shelby!!!

Thanks

11-11-2007, 11:06 PM	#11
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? The soft lock clutch was brand new from McLeod along with the .330 disc, and the flywheel I had in the car was sent in to them to have the heat sheild replaced. The entire assembly came from McLeod in a box as a matched set-up. I will measure the disc, but with this thinking, McLeod would have had to have set it up for a .280 disc, and then set me the unit labled as a .330. This could very well be, but how would I personally be able to check this? The clutch that was in the car was sent to McLeod by me after I got the car. It was some old out dated long style clutch, but had no adjustment at all even though I was told I was getting a true soft lock unit in the deal. I sent them the clutch & flywheel, and after we figured everything out, we told them to set me up with a new soft lock, and it returned along with my old flywheel with a new heat shield. The entire unit that I have in the car now was in McLeods hands, and any error on disc thickness would be on them. The clutch hasn't worked since I received it. No air gap, and creeping with RPM at launch badly! The car would shift, but would start to creep at 4800RPM or so. __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718

11-12-2007, 01:37 PM	#12
Strick Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: York, PA Posts: 3 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? What gap are you trying to achieve? I am no expert, but have run the Soft-Lok for two year. At times I ran as small as .040 gap with no creep. I currently run .060 gap. I was told the larger gap will cause the initial hit to be harder. making it hard to find the sweet spot in the setup. I'm curious what gap other people use?

11-12-2007, 01:58 PM	#13
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? McLeod says, .070 to .085. Many people I have talked to run them at .050. Some people don't even check air gap, and use the RPM to determine it based on if the car creeps or not. My car creeps at around 4800RPM, and I need to try to get this thing to hold in the mid 6K range. __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718

11-12-2007, 05:09 PM	#14
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? I had a "custom" built flywheel built for me by McLeod. Always had problems getting the clutch fork geometry, air-gap, etc. correct. I got it to work but it always seemed there were compromises. Sometime later I started using Rob Youngblood's Advanced Clutches. I had his new 10" unit which included the the Advanced flywheel. When I bolted it all up, everything was different. It was after discussion with Rob & comparing some other flywheels that we determined the McLeod Flywheel was built wrong and it was to far offsett from the crank (towards the trans). THe Advanced flywheel was built correctly. Once installed and all adjustments were made I didn't have those McLeod problems again. I also have heard from more than one source that McLeod has sent out the incorrect thickness disk. Sure you can shim it out but after spending so much money, why should you have the ***-ache of R&R'ing the bell until YOU get it right? Another thing I know, Rob rejects a good 90% of clutch disks he receives due to rockwell hardness and other problems. Does McLeod? I know it's hard to scrap a unit once you own it but with all these problems (and I'll bet the problem goes back to poor quality control at McLeod), I'd send it to Advanced for his upgrade or buy an entirely new Advanced unit. At least when you call Rob, he picks up the phone... Good luck... __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

11-12-2007, 06:11 PM	#15
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? Jeff, I couldn't agree with you more. Rob at Advanced is the man when it comes to customer service. I have had some dealings with him, and am talking to him now about moving to his clutch. I bought a bellhousing from him, that ended up being to deep for my current application. He was up front, and always there when we called on him. He refunded my money for the bellhousing, and I ended up buying a new one from Lakewood, but only because I was at a race, and needed it that same day. In the future... I will have an Advanced clutch in my car. As for now, I just need to get the car to make a full pass, and start working out the bugs without throwing any more money at it. I have been on the phone with McLeod most of the morning, and as it looks, they set it up wrong from the start. Fred Taylor had me measure from the inside of the PP cover to the finger, and said if properly set up it should read .290. When I measured mine, it is at .240. There is the .050 that I can't seem to fine. I am waiting to hear back from him to confirm this, and if so, the unit will be returned to McLeod to be set up correctly. I am not about to settle for just adding shims to my clutch, like Jeff said, for the money, it should be set up right the first time! I have fought this car and clutch problems since May of this year, and have made numerous calls to McLeod. In and out with the trans, bell, and clutch at least 50 times adjusting everything possible, and a simple mistake on their part has cost me hundreds of dollars in fuel, entry fees, and my own time. Hopefully, everything will work out with a fix by McLeod, and I can get my race car out to make a full pass, and start sorting things out. Basically 2007 was a wash for me... More to come.... __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718

11-12-2007, 09:17 PM	#16
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? McLeod called back, and said that the .240 would be to my advantage??? They also said that it should be set to .290, so I can't imajine why they would send me something set incorrectly. I am sending the clutch back to them, to check out, and set correctly. They said they were going to set it up, and apply .035 air gap, and try to figure out the bearing measurment from that to help with the geometry. Hopefully, they can remedy this, and I can get a full pass in the car before the end of the season, and before my next trip to the middle east at the end of Dec. __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718

11-12-2007, 11:33 PM	#17
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? Man, I hope they get it right for you. The heat shield they added needs to be checked as well. Some are thicker than others. I hate the thought of a soldier being in Iraq thinking about his race car that didn't even make a pass all year! Hopefully you'll get that great wheels up launch before you ship out. That'll be a little more stimulating at least! Good luck! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

11-28-2007, 12:44 AM	#18
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? I sent the clutch back to McLeod, and they called me today. They said that my clutch was in perfect working order? When I questioned them about my clutch measuring .240 between the fingers and the cover, vs. them telling me that it should read .290, they wouldn't answer me, and just kept saying, I don't know... but your clutch is good? I was at work, and couldn't really talk to them, but I will be calling back to get some more answers, and measurments. While on the phone, he asked me if my car was cable operated, or not. It is. He then gave me an extention number of the cable operated expert there at McLeod. I will be calling to talk to him tomorow also. After all the calls I have mane to McLeod Tech. why was I never pointed in the " cable operated expert's" direction? All good questions... One thing that someone questioned me about today while discussing this, was if my bellhousing block plate could a different thickness from what was in the car before. I initially had an old McLeod bellhousing in the car, and we made our first passes using this old beat up bell housing. The trans broke as a result of the bellhousing not being properly aligned due to the bore hole being so badly chewed up that you couldn't get an accurate measurment at all. After the trans was fixed, we installed a Lakewood 51201, and have been having air gap issues ever since. Could the block plate thickness have anything to do with my air gap issue? The Lakewood plate that I have measures .130 thick. I have no idea what the McLeod plate was, but I will be sure to ask McLeod tomorrow about this. Anyone have any thoughts on if this could cause an issue with air gap? __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718

11-29-2007, 07:56 AM	#19
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? Shawn, I also, was unable to get the right amount of air gap with a .330 disc. Problem is the bell is just not deep enough and you can't get the cable to provide enough throw for proper release wihtout problems. I MUST run a max of a .280 disc for everything to fit, along with a McLeod adjustable throwout bearing. I run about .080-090-inch air gap and this still gives me enough gap between the fingers and the bearing when the clutch pedal is relaxed. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

11-29-2007, 08:39 AM	#20
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Soft Lock Air Gap Peoblem??? Evan, What bellhousing are you running, and also who's cable? I haven't had much luck with finding an adjustable cable long enough to work. I have a McLeod quadrant, and firewall adjuster on the car now. I don't even use the firewall adjuster, so I may nust remove it to give me a little more at the other end. Any help here would be appreciated. By the way, I can't wait to see the New SS/A Shelby!!! Thanks __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718